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SUCHANEK: Okay, meeting with Mr. William B. Keightley on May 30, 2006. This is for the UK Alumni Faculty Project and I'm Jeff Suchanek.

SUCHANEK: Mr. Keightley it been a while since we met but I wanted to, I listened to our last conversation back in November and I we'd been talking about some of the players and had gotten through the 1960's and I thought we'd go ahead and start with the 70's this time. I know we talked about this a little bit but I don't remember 1:00exactly what we said so if you could just refresh my memory once again. Of course the early 70's saw the retirement of Coach Rupp and Joe B. Hall was, took over as coach of the UK basketball program. And what were the differences between, in coaching style between Coach Rupp and Coach Hall?

KEIGHTLEY: Well of course Joe B. learned the Kentucky basketball system under Coach Rupp and actually and other than the difference in the personality the philosophy remained much the same. That's, that's the reason it was an easy transition. Of course Joe B. being much younger and naturally you have a little more 2:00energy that was the most noticeable part of it because Joe B. just like Coach Rupp was also a very strict disciplinarian and, and both of them realized in order to be successful you had to be a successful recruiter and Joe B. had already proven himself as a very successful recruiter under Coach Rupp. So the transition was, really wasn't like most transitions cause...

SUCHANEK: Pretty seamless?

KEIGHTLEY: they were all you know Kentucky people and Joe B. had grown up in the Kentucky system all though he played at Sewanee College he still was here for two years and never lost touch with the...with the Kentucky type of game.

SUCHANEK: Where's he from?

KEIGHTLEY: Now Joe B. is from Cynthiana, Kentucky.

SUCHANEK: Ok, so he grew up knowing the Kentucky tradition?

3:00

KEIGHTLEY: Absolutely, yes siree.

SUCHANEK: Some of the players in the...in the early 70's if you could tell us about some of those fellows. I know we've, I think we've mentioned Bob McCowen before, Kent Hollenbeck. How about Stan Key?

KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, Stan Key, he was from Hazel, Kentucky, that's Calloway County. Stan of course was a very underrated guard here at the University of Kentucky. Was a very steady and heady player and when I think of underrated players that we've had at Kentucky Stan Key was one of 'em and not only that Stan as you 4:00well know now is a member here of the staff at the University of Kentucky. SUCHANEK: Right, the Alumni Association.

KEIGHTLEY: That's right. (Phone ringing) We'll let that ring now. Yeah speaking of Stan Key...

SUCHANEK: Yeah, he's head of the Alumni Association.

KEIGHTLEY: Yes, that's right.

SUCHANEK: And I keep meaning...meaning to interview him about playing here at UK and haven't gotten around to it yet.

KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, he's, he is a...he was an extremely great asset to our basketball program. He, he was such a fine individual.

SUCHANEK: How about Ray Edelman?

KEIGHTLEY: Ray Edelman, yes sir he was from Pennsylvania and he was another...a player that was...his dad was a coach so he was well grounded in the 5:00fundamentals of the game and he also like Stan Key was a, a very heady basketball player. He, of course after he graduated from here he went to law school. He's now a successful attorney.

SUCHANEK: Where at?

KEIGHTLEY: He is a in...well he lives here in, in Lexington but he practices law in Lawrenceburg, Kentucky.

SUCHANEK: Ok, alright...Ronnie Lyons?

KEIGHTLEY: Yes, Ronnie Lyons from Maysville, Kentucky, Mason County affectionately nicknamed the "Worm" (Suchanek and Keightley laugh) because of his 6:00dominative size. (Suchanek laughs) But Ronnie probably was the last of the...the two handed shot experts. He was a tremendous shooter from any range with his two- handed shot.

SUCHANEK: Which was unusual in, in the early 70's?

KEIGHTLEY: That's right, yeah as, as I say I guess he, he was the last of the string of great two-handed guards that we had. Yeah Ronnie was a very quiet individual. He always had a great love for race horses.

SUCHANEK: Oh really.

KEIGHTLEY: The thoroughbred industry always...he was very much up to date on that (SUCHANEK laughs) but he was a fine little athlete. He was a heck of a, of a 7:00baseball and, and fast pitch softball player and he now is employed by Lexmark. He's been there for, for, for many years and I rarely ever see Ronnie but he was always one of my favorite players.

SUCHANEK: Really?

KEIGHTLEY: Yes.

SUCHANEK: Why?

KEIGHTLEY: Well he...you know he was just a quiet little individual that never complained. He just, he just did his job every day and he, he was a, a, a joy to be around.

SUCHANEK: How did he get his interest in thoroughbreds, do you know?

KEIGHTLEY: Oh you know, it just, it just being a member of society a lot of people have hobbies you know and he would, he would study the, the, the thoroughbreds and he was quite adapted at picking...doing a pretty good job of picking 8:00the right ones at the tracks.

SUCHANEK: Oh really.

KEIGHTLEY: And, but you know as I say it was just a hobby.

SUCHANEK: Sure.

KEIGHTLEY: You know like I read the newspaper every day, I read the box score of all the baseball games well Ronnie would read the results of the, of the, (Keightley and Suchanek laugh) of the racing industry.

SUCHANEK: Right.

KEIGHTLEY: So, now as, I don't know today I I've never seen him at the race track, maybe he doesn't, maybe he doesn't follow it anymore because I haven't seen Ronnie for some period of time although he lives not too far from here.

SUCHANEK: Oh really, ok. How about Tom Parker? Tom Parker?

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KEIGHTLEY: Tom Parker, Collinsville, Illinois. Big old left handed kid, another real great one-handed shooter, not, not necessarily a jump shooter but kinda had a one-handed push shot that he was very successful with because he was a big body and again he, he was one of the more intelligent players on the coach...on the floor that that we've had here. He had a highly successful athletic career. Of course he didn't attempt to play pro ball but he went into the insurance business and was quite successful, then he ventured into the restaurant business and he... SUCHANEK: Didn't do as well.

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KEIGHTLEY: Didn't do hardly as well so today Tom is back teaching in high school.

SUCHANEK: Where at?

KEIGHTLEY: He is at Dunbar.

SUCHANEK: It's amazing how many of these former athletes kinda stay in the area even if they're not from Kentucky.

KEIGHTLEY: Yes, that's right, yes.

SUCHANEK: Is there a reason, just because the name recognition do you think?

KEIGHTLEY: Well you know I think really your most formative years is probably is 18-22 and you stay here four years, five years whatever it takes and...

SUCHANEK: Kinda idolized.

KEIGHTLEY: you, you know you make, you, you make relationships and friendships with so many people and you go back to your roots where you were from...

SUCHANEK: And you're just Tom Parker right.

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KEIGHTLEY: Yes, that's right.

SUCHANEK: And here, in here...

KEIGHTLEY: And here you know you were, as soon as you see him you think about UK basketball and that'll never go away.

SUCHANEK: So that's, you know that's quite an advantage for someone to come either here or Duke or North Carolina or some of the more storied programs in that you know there's a, it helps them down the road even if they don't play pro ball.

KEIGHTLEY: Yes, absolutely, you know it's a, lets see...

SUCHANEK: I mean do you think Richie Farmer would ever be Commissioner of Agriculture if he wouldn't have played here?

KEIGHTLEY: Absolutely not, no way. (Suchanek laughs) If, you know what if he hadn't have been a basketball player he, he wouldn't be Commissioner of Agriculture.

SUCHANEK: Right. KEIGHTLEY: But he got name recognition and you know so it made him an extremely popular candidate.

SUCHANEK: And he was a pretty fair player.

KEIGHTLEY: And a pretty fair player on top of that. But yes we always say if 12:00you come to Kentucky and you play basketball and, and you know you do all of your, of your little things here like get your degree, keep a good clean name when you graduate you don't have to worry you gonna get a position with some corporation or someone you can go into business with and, and, and be set for life.

SUCHANEK: Right. You know not start at an entry position either.

KEIGHTLEY: No, like for instance, were talking about the 70's I'll give you a name right now. Another one of my all-time favorite people is Jerry Hale; he was from 13:00Floyds Knobs, Indiana. He came here I guess in maybe about '71, could have been a freshman but Jerry was a very capable player but never got to play much because...

SUCHANEK: '72

KEIGHTLEY: he was with the Grevey, Flynn, Connor group.

SUCHANEK: That's right.

KEIGHTLEY: And but Jerry loved Kentucky basketball and you know Floyds Knobs is just across the Ohio River from...

SUCHANEK: Right.

KEIGHTLEY: Louisville. So Jerry came here and became, when he was in the program he became friends with a gentleman by the name of George Evans who was President of National Mines Association.

SUCHANEK: We have an interview with George Evans.

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KEIGHTLEY: And anyhow Jerry retired from National Mines. He had a career with National Mines, did quite well. And then he after he retired he went into the banking business for two or three years and now he's working for the Keeneland Association...

SUCHANEK: Oh is he.

KEIGHTLEY: With Nick Nicholson.

SUCHANEK: Yes KEIGHTLEY: Yes, and Mr. Bassett so he, you know he has a position there and he still reasonably young fella but it's the connections that you make.

SUCHANEK: Right, exactly.

KEIGHTLEY: Having been a basketball player and a well thought of individual and also a pillar of the community and he's involved in a lot of, a lot of charitable 15:00things. So you know all that, all of that is quite satisfying when you have worked and see young individuals attain the success that they have.

SUCHANEK: Does anyone come to mind as far as players go where when you think about when they came here and four years later when they left, either who would you say improved the most as a player but probably more important, who, who improved or who grew as a person the most that you, that you could say you were very proud of that person.

KEIGHTLEY: Well Jeff, you know what that's a, that's a tough question because you know there's been, there's been...

SUCHANEK: A lot of 'em.

KEIGHTLEY: so many of 'em you know. I...

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SUCHANEK: Well who just comes to mind, some of the players.

KEIGHTLEY: Yeah well a, you know you have to think about well guys like Cliff Berger who now is a very successful dentist in Savannah, Georgia, I think of Bob Guyette who was a, who was a Rhodes Scholar candidate that is now in cosmetic surgery in Denver, Colorado, in fact his son is pitching out here now for the Legends.

SUCHANEK: Oh really.

KEIGHTLEY: Yes.

SUCHANEK: How about that.

KEIGHTLEY: Yes.

SUCHANEK: Have you seen him recently?

KEIGHTLEY: No I have not and I'm sure I will some time this summer.

SUCHANEK: I'm sure he'll be in.

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KEIGHTLEY: Because Bob will, yes he'll be in to Lexington so I'll see him but you know he went, of course he, he studied to be a dentist, he went to the dental school here but he just kept on and, and, and when he would complete one degree he would go for another one and you know we often joke about that he'd be drawing social security before he ever went in business. (Suchanek and Keightley laugh)

SUCHANEK: Professional student.

KEIGHTLEY: Yep professional, but you know like Joe B. used to say, "He was too smart to coach", because you'd have a set play and while we'll say while somebody was shooting a free throw Bob would be thinking about how he could make that play work better (SUCHANEK and Keightley laugh) so it made it difficult to run the 18:00play. But you know it's, it's...

SUCHANEK: You know there's an expression for that you know, "stop thinking your hurting the team." (Suchanek and Keightley laugh)

KEIGHTLEY: That's right, that's it. Yeah he, you can't think too much.

SUCHANEK: That's right.

KEIGHTLEY: And you know you got a kid that's still, he's still out there and he's working but he had some problems when he was, I can't say he had any bad problems while he was in school but, I'm talking about Derrick Miller, it took him so, so long to graduate but he came from very difficult circumstances and, and he...

SUCHANEK: Where was he from?

KEIGHTLEY: He was from Savannah, Georgia.

SUCHANEK: Ok.

KEIGHTLEY: And he needed, was probably never given the love as a, as a 19:00youngster that he should have had nor any guidance at all.

SUCHANEK: Was he from a large family?

KEIGHTLEY: No not particularly large but it was somewhat disjointed.

SUCHANEK: Ok.

KEIGHTLEY: And, but he came here and you know he, he struggled but was a, was a good player, well hell he was a great shooter; he still holds the record for 3-point shooters at Kentucky. But anyhow, you know he...

SUCHANEK: That was the late 80's right?

KEIGHTLEY: Yeah. He played one year for Rick. SUCHANEK: Right.

KEIGHTLEY: Yeah. But he you know he struggled and as a sophomore Eddie Sutton gave him to me cause he just you know he had just exhausted all of his (Suchanek and Keightley laugh) avenues so you know and I was kinda, I was kinda 20:00hard on Derrick but by the same token he respected me and by golly we got him through his four years and...

SUCHANEK: What do you mean Coach Sutton turned him over to you?

KEIGHTLEY: Well he was just said you know everything he'd try you know Derrick would was a little emotional you know maybe emotionally upset and he just said, "Mr. Keightley he's your boy", (Suchanek laughs) so anyhow you know I counseled Derrick a lot and on, on senior night you know the parents always come to...

SUCHANEK: Right.

KEIGHTLEY: see the kids through. Well Derrick's momma the first time I ever 21:00saw her was the mother and I was the father. (Suchanek laughs) And I held, and I held a hoop for Derrick to run through and lined up as his father but you know he's still here in Lexington, he's working selling advertising and well he, he just, he's doing the best he has ever done in his life which nobody expected. Nobody expected you know he could, he would do anything but he, he calls me regularly and you know I'm, I'm, I'm proud of him because if he, again he's a kid never left this town.

SUCHANEK: And he's from Savannah.

KEIGHTLEY: Yeah.

SUCHANEK: Yeah there was probably nothing for him to go back to there.

KEIGHTLEY: No, no, nothing. And he has a nephew that's a pretty good basketball player, now the nephews somewhere in Georgia. Derrick had him here in 22:00camp last summer. But anyhow you know I'm, I'm proud of Derrick because without Kentucky basketball and people around the program...

SUCHANEK: To support him.

KEIGHTLEY: yes to support him...

SUCHANEK: Who knows what would have happened to him.

KEIGHTLEY: Yes, who knows? I don't know where he would have been today but he, he would not be as well off as he is today.

SUCHANEK: Is there any other players like that that you kinda took under your wing?

KEIGHTLEY: Well you know Jeff not, not particularly but you do give support to players you know at times when things are going pretty tough is, is what they need.

SUCHANEK: I know back in, in November you mentioned that Erik Daniels was in here for a long time one day...

KEIGHTLEY: yes

SUCHANEK: talking to you...

KEIGHTLEY: yes

SUCHANEK: So is that, is this kinda like a place where players come to...

23:00

KEIGHTLEY: Well yes, yes it is, yes.

SUCHANEK: If there having problems with academics or maybe coaches?

KEIGHTLEY: Whatever, whatever yeah. It's a place to come where you can give 'em a little emotional security. You know Cliff Hawkins was one. You remember he was ineligible for, (Keightley interrupted by someone entering the room) had been academically ineligible for a semester and I know you know a kid like that every time you see them and there trying to get there grades in order they need encouragement and they feed off of that and that's kinda human nature really.

SUCHANEK: How about Shagari Alleyne?

KEIGHTLEY: Well I don't know what I'm gonna be able to pull that one or not. 24:00(SUCHANEK and Keightley laugh) You know he's another old kid who comes in here and sits down and, and we visit, he's a, he talks with a, you know he's really, his parents are from Trinidad.

SUCHANEK: Right.

KEIGHTLEY: And he's articulate and polite, respectful but he just can't get himself together, disciplined enough to get in the classroom and I don't know why because everybody has worked like heck with him.

SUCHANEK: I'm sure you've asked him why, right?

KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, well he'll tell you hey you know you can't dispute it he'll tell you he's doing ok. (SUCHANEK and Keightley laugh)

SUCHANEK: Until the grades come out.

KEIGHTLEY: (unintelligible) that's right, yes. He's very convincing. 25:00(SUCHANEK and Keightley laugh) So you know as, I'll be honest with you Jeff right now I don't know, I really don't know what the status of his grades are. You know of course the newspaper has already had to say...

SUCHANEK: He's, they've written him off.

KEIGHTLEY: They've written him off, now that may be true and that may not be true. We, we've got to see.

SUCHANEK: Does that hurt you personally when, when a kid like that...

KEIGHTLEY: Yes.

SUCHANEK: comes in and you've counseled him and he still doesn't make it?

KEIGHTLEY: Yes. Well you know maybe if they came in for one year and decided you know well I'm just not gonna go to school and leave ok...

SUCHANEK: And that's happened right?

KEIGHTLEY: but when you've got, when we've had him for three years I really don't understand why if we put up with it this long why we just don't go ahead and dig 26:00our heels in and give him another year and then let nature take its course whatever it may be, would be my theory you know. You know the old...

SUCHANEK: I mean he, he hadn't gotten any better right?

KEIGHTLEY: Well he hadn't gotten any better but he hadn't gotten any worse.

SUCHANEK: Right. (Suchanek and Keightley laughs)

KEIGHTLEY: And you know the old adage is "you never say never", and so that would be my theory but I have not talked with his our academic advisor since that article came out so I'm not exactly certain where, where it does stand because of the privacy part of it although we do know.

SUCHANEK: Right.

27:00

KEIGHTLEY: So...but I would like to look up next, next week and see Shagari back in town. Now I don't know if that will happen or not but, but the summer school starts June 8th so...

SUCHANEK: I wanted to ask you before we discuss more of these players from the 70's before I forget this, I, and these are restricted so no one can listen to these for a long time till you say so this, this recent comment by Mitch Barnhart about Coach Smith not being as public as he should, what do you make of that?

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KEIGHTLEY: I think you know it's a matter of opinion. I think probably Mitch feels that people need to be more aggressive, you know it's maybe personality things.

SUCHANEK: I mean Coach Smith is a really nice man.

KEIGHTLEY: You know what as a, as a human being Coach Smith's one of the greatest people I've ever known in my life and he sometimes people you know they, they perceive as kinda laid back demeanor versus the pressure of Kentucky basketball as being...

SUCHANEK: incompatible (Suchanek and Keightley laughs)

KEIGHTLEY: You got it, yeah you, and you do in today you really have to be aggressive. It, it is quite necessary to make, you know when you don't make a 29:00decision that is a decision.

SUCHANEK: Right.

KEIGHTLEY: When you don't make one and you know today as you move forward you've got to make decisions now you can't wait and let everybody in competition make a decision before you do. You gotta get in there and make decisions early on and, and go from that point.

SUCHANEK: What, what are you talking about specifically?

KEIGHTLEY: Well that means...

SUCHANEK: are you talking recruiting?

KEIGHTLEY: I know what Mitch is talking about because you know in he perceives that recruiting as not up to present or past Kentucky standards. I think that's what he's alluding to and maybe, maybe also in encouraging Tubby to make maybe 30:00some staff moves. I, I'm sure that that's probably in his mind and, and of course being the athletic director you've got to be aggressive and Mitch is one that's not afraid to pull the trigger. You see, you can see that. I mean he'll make decisions and, and you know he gets criticized for making decisions but...

SUCHANEK: you make 'em

KEIGHTLEY: you also get criticized for not making decisions. So in, in, in athletics you've really you've really got to dig your heels in and, and get after it every day. You've, you've got, you just well if you're required to be somewhere in representing the university you really need to be there and on time, it's the way it is 31:00because if your gonna be successful you got to do it and no way to rest on your laurels because Kentucky is a school of a lot of basketball tradition but you can't, you can't take that perception and expect it to carry you the rest of your life because you've got to work just as hard today as you did when you first started in the profession.

SUCHANEK: Right. Well we've talked about before how recruiting has changed.

KEIGHTLEY: Yes it has.

SUCHANEK: You know these, a lot of these talented kids would rather go to a lesser school with (Keightley-unintelligible-both men talking) with less traditions because they can play.

KEIGHTLEY: And you know and the other things that makes it difficult in 32:00recruiting today is the fact the, the recruiting field out there is not very level. You know without calling names there there x amount of schools that circumvent the NCAA but because they're not an elite school they escape the scrutiny of the NCAA, Oklahoma not withstanding.

SUCHANEK: Well you know...

KEIGHTLEY: Indiana you know picks the guy up...

SUCHANEK: Right

KEIGHTLEY: and you know I've been told for years that they, they could not understand why that was allowed to exist.

SUCHANEK: at Oklahoma.

KEIGHTLEY: And that's, that's a reason if there's a you know if you have an intelligent player he's not going to get involved in that sort of thing but there are so 33:00many kids that, the NBA has caused this to a degree also, there's so many kids that think when they're in high school they're not gonna go to college they're going right straight to the pro's so actually the NBA encourages these kids really by making them available for the draft.

SUCHANEK: And unless your Kobe Bryant or LeBron James.

KEIGHTLEY: Yes, right, but these kids and, and you've got the, you've got the parasites out there that gets involved with these kids just trying to tell 'em you going to the NBA and that's what the kid wants to hear.

SUCHANEK: Right KEIGHTLEY: Well these people are trying to latch on to one that will be a meal 34:00ticket for them and that spills over into this AAU basketball, there's too many of those coaches involved with with big apparel companies...

SUCHANEK: Shoe companies

KEIGHTLEY: that, that, that sometimes these, these AAU coaches they have more influence upon a player than does his high school coach. The reason being they get little perks from this AAU coach...

SUCHANEK: That they don't get in high school.

KEIGHTLEY: and they go Scot free from any kind of penalties and that's what's made recruiting tougher and Tubby is not part of that at all. He wants 'em to get an education and develop into the very best person and player they can be and you have 35:00to get a kid that's got a pretty good IQ to buy into that kind of a situation in lieu of somebody that's looking for a quick buck. And, and that's what makes recruiting so tough today.

SUCHANEK: And I think too, at least my perception is, is being out in the public and, and getting money to do television ads to me that's not Coach Smith's style.

KEIGHTLEY: No

SUCHANEK: I think, I think, I think as a, as a coach you know there's nobody who wants to win more than he does but if he had his druthers he would just coach basketball and that would be it. I think truth be told he might be more of an introvert than an extravert. Would you...?

36:00

KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, it's a, it takes a very special type person to coach basketball at the University of Kentucky and, and Tubby is that special kinda person but the thing that that you know I've seen over the years that the demands of this program year after year after year...

SUCHANEK: Wear on you.

KEIGHTLEY: Can take its toll. I mean you can really could be some place every single day representing the university and it, it, it takes a inordinate amount of energy and planning to be able to accommodate all of the, all of the pressures.

SUCHANEK: Well just the recruiting trips that they they have to take. I don't know how many recruiting trips Coach Smith takes in a year but I'm, I'm imagining it's in the dozens wouldn't it be?

37:00

KEIGHTLEY: Oh yeah, yeah it of course you know he's got to rely upon his assistants to do this and we you know, they, they have to, they, they, they have to be held accountable. They are supposed to find the talent and Coach Smith is supposed to close the deal so you know that's, that's...

SUCHANEK: I understand what you're saying.

KEIGHTLEY: that's the way its structured...

SUCHANEK: Right

KEIGHTLEY: and I, I just don't know...

SUCHANEK: You, you think you can, you think the basketball program could do better.

KEIGHTLEY: Well I...

SUCHANEK: Without I mean I'm sure they're fine people.

KEIGHTLEY: well I, you know I you know whatever, whatever business you were in, if you were at Lexmark yes they could probably done better last year. You, you 38:00can always, you can always improve a little bit on what you've accomplished if you, If you have the drive to do it and the thing of it is he can't, now the field gets diluted out there because of some of the lesser schools are able to lure top prospects away from, from the bigger schools.

SUCHANEK: Because they can play immediately.

KEIGHTLEY: Yes, yes and...

SUCHANEK: We talked last time about Memphis.

KEIGHTLEY: Yeah right. Yes they play immediately.

SUCHANEK: And, and Coach Calipari gets good players for a year or two.

KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, yeah, but you know that's where the graduation rate thing comes in.

SUCHANEK: Right, yeah, same thing with Bob Huggins when he was in Cincinnati.

KEIGHTLEY: Yes, oh yes, yes.

SUCHANEK: Ok. 39:00KEIGHTLEY: And, but you've got well there's so many teams that fly under the radar and you don't know, you don't understand why it happens and players show up at these schools for with no really basketball tradition and of course they don't stay long.

SUCHANEK: Why has Billy Donovan done such a good recruiting job down in Florida? They didn't have a rich basketball tradition but they're building...

KEIGHTLEY: Well I, I'd say...

SUCHANEK: I guess locale is one big draw.

KEIGHTLEY: Well you know regardless of what kind of a, however well you do in basketball in Florida you always gonna be in 2nd place. That makes no difference. I 40:00think Billy...

SUCHANEK: Same thing as Tennessee.

KEIGHTLEY: Yeah right. Yeah, yes, there is a, hey there is another one just remember, remember this there is another one not the University of Tennessee but some of the administrative part of that people that down there has flown under the radar and it won't last.

SUCHANEK: And Texas is another one.

KEIGHTLEY: Absolutely.

SUCHANEK: You know how would you like to be head coach of Texas; no matter how good you are you're...

KEIGHTLEY: Yes.

SUCHANEK: You're always gonna be second banana.

KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, and I think Billy and you know being a very personable young man I love Billy to death, he's, what a great kid, what a great family and you 41:00never get too old in this business to, to learn. Billy has learned about recruiting the McDonald All-Americans and, and Tubby has tried to recruit players that he thinks he's gonna keep for four years. Now you know Billy had like last year those three McDonald All-Americans all of 'em turned pro, three of 'em and you know you would have thought that this year he would have had to struggle and you see what he did he won a national championship and which was unexpected because the, the kids that really carried that team were on the squad last year and didn't play, now this year they 42:00probably at least one of 'em had an opportunity to go pro and will never have another better year than he had this year in college and I'm talking about Noah. He, he'll never improve upon that.

SUCHANEK: Yeah I was surprised to read in the paper that he's the son of that pro tennis player.

KEIGHTLEY: Yeah.

SUCHANEK: Yeah I didn't know that, so he got it in the genes.

KEIGHTLEY: Yeah.

SUCHANEK: Yeah.

KEIGHTLEY: Yes sir. So you know Noah is having a great time and like you said I guess the locale and the fact that Florida's a party school Noah's living a dream and he doesn't have to worry about money so he don't go pro. But I think Billy, Billy has learned that probably you get the best player you can get that's players that have 43:00the grades, you know he had that Kwame Brown you know that's involved in all kinds of situations.

SUCHANEK: Right.

KEIGHTLEY: He had the kid White that transferred to Cincinnati. He had all those together would have been with, with the team Walsh, Lee, and Roberson along with those two. See they were all All-Americans and two of 'em stayed in trouble the whole time and, and the other three are gone and, and David Lee you know...

SUCHANEK: He's a pretty good player.

KEIGHTLEY: He's a good player.

SUCHANEK: Yeah.

KEIGHTLEY: Yes, and Walsh...

SUCHANEK: How were the other two?

KEIGHTLEY: was a good player.

SUCHANEK: Well how, I didn't follow them in the pros this year.

KEIGHTLEY: Well I didn't either because I just didn't, Roberson I don't even know where he is so...

44:00

SUCHANEK: Ok, well let's get back to talking about some of these players in the 70's, Dan Perry?

KEIGHTLEY: Dan Perry, he was from Middletown, Ohio. Dan came here, he was about 6'7" and he had a very (Keightley-breaks for a phone call)...

SUCHANEK: Tell me about Dan Perry, yeah.

45:00

KEIGHTLEY: Dan Perry, Dan Perry yes, Dan was another very bright young man. He had a, he had kind of a unusual athletic build. He had a very long torso and real short legs (SUCHANEK and Keightley laugh) for a 6'7" guy but you know he had, he stuck it out here and...

SUCHANEK: Where's he at now?

KEIGHTLEY: He went to dental school. He became a dentist and committed suicide.

SUCHANEK: Oh you're kidding.

KEIGHTLEY: No.

SUCHANEK: Wow. What happened there, do you know?

KEIGHTLEY: I, no one knows. No one knows.

SUCHANEK: You would have never suspected that when he was a player.

KEIGHTLEY: Never, never, never, never, no, I knew the young lady he married 46:00and she was a wonderful person, they were Christian people but you know you never know what what triggers that sort of thing.

SUCHANEK: How about Rick Drewitz?

KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, "Mr. Peepers" we called him. (Suchanek and Keightley laugh) He was somewhere out of Michigan. He was about 6'8". Peepers...

SUCHANEK: Yeah, why was he called "Mr. Peepers"?

KEIGHTLEY: Well yeah because you remember Mr. Peepers on TV was kind of a, kind of a I don't know how you say it, kind of a timid individual and he wore glasses and that's the way he got the name of being "Peepers". He was kind of a timid bright kid, real bright kid.

SUCHANEK: How could you be timid and play for UK?

47:00

KEIGHTLEY: I don't know but, but Peepers he come in here, he hung, he graduated and he became general manager for Conair Manufacturing Company that had a plant in Cynthiana, Kentucky. SUCHANEK: Really.

KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, he spent, he spent most of his career right there and I don't know where Peepers is today, I haven't seen him but the last time I saw him was in, was in Cynthiana.

SUCHANEK: How long ago was that?

KEIGHTLEY: Oh, it's probably been six, six years ago.

SUCHANEK: Ok, well he might still be there, maybe retired.

KEIGHTLEY: I don't, you know what he's, he's retired I do know that. Yes, he's retired.

48:00

SUCHANEK: Of course he could be in Florida or Arizona too.

KEIGHTLEY: Yeah but I, I, I think, I think he's still in the state of Kentucky.

SUCHANEK: Ok.

KEIGHTLEY: But I just don't know where he's living.

SUCHANEK: Ok. How about Larry Stamper?

KEIGHTLEY: Ok yes Larry. He had played for Lee County High School. They were in the state tournament one year. Old Larry was a ferocious rebounder and I guess played the game as hard as anybody we've ever had here.

SUCHANEK: He had a nice build to him.

KEIGHTLEY: Oh yes.

SUCHANEK: Big shoulders.

KEIGHTLEY: Big shoulders, yeah, rougher than a freight train (Suchanek and Keightley laugh) and he was a he, you know he played back there in the 70's with Jim Andrews...

SUCHANEK: Right.

KEIGHTLEY: Ronnie Lyons, and Stan Key.

SUCHANEK: I imagine he was one of those guys you hated to practice against.

49:00

KEIGHTLEY: Oh yes that's right, and you always let him guard the tough toughest player the opponent had, the toughest big player. University of Tennessee had a big 6'10" center nobody could do anything with. Larry Stamper owned him. (Suchanek and Keightley laugh) He owned him, Kosmalski was the guys name and, and when, Stan held him one game to two points and this guy just killed everybody but I said Stan I meant Larry.

SUCHANEK: Larry, where is he these days?

KEIGHTLEY: Larry, this is kinda scary, Larry is a, is teaching school. 50:00(Suchanek and Keightley laugh) He was, his wife now is teaching at Clark County, Royetta, but I believe Larry is teaching at Ezel, E-Z-E-L and the last time I spoke with him he's he's teaching a self-contained classroom. That means he teaches everything. (Suchanek and Keightley laugh)

SUCHANEK: And you think that's scary?

KEIGHTLEY: This, this is scary. (Suchanek K and Keightley laugh) What, what a great kid he was, I know he had, he had this one son the kids name was Freeman and Freeman was a terror, he just had the one son and I remember Larry told me one day he said, "My Momma had 12 kids and she didn't have as much trouble at of all 12 51:00of them as I have with this one little jerk here." (Suchanek and Keightley laugh)

SUCHANEK: Ok, how about Wendell Lyons?

KEIGHTLEY: Yeah Wen-Wendell from down in Western Kentucky. He, he was another guy that played here. He never got too many minutes on the court but was a highly important part of our practice each and every day for Coach Rupp. He, he was a fine individual and, and I think Wendell finally...

SUCHANEK: Well he must have graduated in '72.

52:00

KEIGHTLEY: Yes, I'm trying to think, I believe Wendell became a teacher and I think now he, well I know he's retired I know that. Yep he is retired.

SUCHANEK: Where's he living, do you know?

KEIGHTLEY: He's still; he's still down in Western Kentucky.

SUCHANEK: western

KEIGHTLEY: Yeah I saw him at one of these reunions we had. He's still in Western Kentucky.

SUCHANEK: Where was he from? Do you know? KEIGHTLEY: You know I want to say Webster County but that might not be right but I think it is.

SUCHANEK: Ok. I'd be surprised if it wasn't on your memory. (Suchanek and Keightley laugh) Ok, that covers the players from Coach Rupp's last team and of course 72-73 was Coach Hall's first team and we have a lot of the same players. Some of the new ones were and I think we talked about Jimmy Dan Conner before.

KEIGHTLEY: Yes

SUCHANEK: Where is, where is he now?

53:00

KEIGHTLEY: He is in, he is in Louisville.

SUCHANEK: Ok. What's he doing?

KEIGHTLEY: He is very, very active in that huge church down there. What is it South Eastern Christian.

SUCHANEK: Ok.

KEIGHTLEY: That, that has something like...

SUCHANEK: 10,000

KEIGHTLEY: Well they have maybe a weekend they may; they may have 30,000 people, see they have the Saturdays and the Sundays. You know the Saturday churches have gotten as a Christian churches have really gotten big because they go on on Saturday and they wear shorts...

SUCHANEK: Right, it's casual.

KEIGHTLEY: and drag their golf clubs in with 'em, beer, no they don't do that I don't reckon.

SUCHANEK: It's a casual atmosphere.

KEIGHTLEY: Yeah. (Keightley talking and laughing)

SUCHANEK: And then they have Sunday free.

KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, and then they have, yes.

SUCHANEK: Yeah.

54:00

KEIGHTLEY: Yes, but, but Jimmy Dan is very active in, in that church and his wife is part of a singing trio that travels all over the south singing Christian music.

SUCHANEK: Oh really.

KEIGHTLEY: Yeah they are...

SUCHANEK: What, what...

KEIGHTLEY: they are very popular.

SUCHANEK: What did Jimmy Dan do for a living?

KEIGHTLEY: He, he was in the investment business.

SUCHANEK: Ok, ok. We were talking about some of the assistant coaches and how important they are for recruiting. I've seen Coach Hall's first year, his assistant coaches were Dick Parsons and Boyd Grant. What can you tell me about those gentlemen?

KEIGHTLEY: Well you know...

SUCHANEK: Is Dick Parsons the same Dick Parsons that's still around here.

KEIGHTLEY: Yes sir, yes.

55:00

SUCHANEK: He's a sports agent, is he the one?

KEIGHTLEY: No, no.

SUCHANEK: No that's Dick Robinson.

KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, that's Dick Robinson. Yeah, yeah, no Dick Parsons was from Harlan, Kentucky. He had played for Joe Gilley, Dick maybe graduated in '61 or it could have been '62. No I believe he might have graduated in '61. He played with Scotty Baesler and Larry Pursiful who's a preacher now. But, but Dick Parsons was one of the most loyal people that ever was a player at the University of Kentucky or as an employee of the University of Kentucky. He is a, was an incredible human being. 56:00He, he, he was, he was the glue for, for Coach Hall's teams while, while he was here. He, he was a...

SUCHANEK: How do you mean, how in what sense do you mean he was the glue?

KEIGHTLEY: Well I mean he was a guy that whatever the situation was with his, with his demeanor could you know it takes a special person to keep fifteen guys all happy. He had a demeanor which would, he could circumvent situations that might have cultivated in things not being so smoothly again but, but he was a guy that could do that and he was you know he wasn't one of those rah, rah gung ho guys he was 57:00just the most organized human being I've ever been around in my life and that carried over, if you went in his garage at home today his garage would, would be as neat and clean as a living room in your home, everything in place, parked the cars in there, there wouldn't be a speck of oil ever on the floor nor dust and he's he's was just so organized, disciplined, and now he's got a son, grandson in, in that's playing over at Mercer County. But Dick was always an outdoorsman, he loved to fish and hunt and he built a cabin up in Harrisburg somewhere back in kind of a wilderness and he 58:00spends most of his time at that cabin. (phone ringing at the beginning of the last sentence)

SUCHANEK: How about Boyd Grant?

KEIGHTLEY: Boyd Grant lived her, he went out west as a, as a coach to, let me see, I can't think what school it was, Oh I guess I got a delivery, but anyhow Boyd went out there and had, Fresno State, had a, had a successful career and then you know coaches after 8-10 years at most places hang it up so he, he, he retired from out there and to as what he's doing now I do not know.

SUCHANEK: He was here just one year?

KEIGHTLEY: Yes. Yes sir.

59:00

SUCHANEK: How about J.G., G., G.J. Smith? I'll get it out.

KEIGHTLEY: G.J. the old boy yes sir, George John. (Suchanek laughs) That's his name George John. He was from (pause-phone ringing) yeah G.J. is from Laurel 60:00County, his father played basketball I believe it was on the 1939 Hazel Green High School State Championship team.

SUCHANEK: I'm sure there's not many people in this state that know that except you. (Suchanek laughs)

KEIGHTLEY: But, but G.J. had a quite successful career at, at, up in Laurel County in course he came here he was a typical Eastern Kentucky kid, really quiet, had very little to say, worked hard and of course the, he was with that Guyette and all that group.

SUCHANEK: Right.

KEIGHTLEY: I'll never never forget you know Bob was from up Ottawa, Illinois 61:00when as, as a freshman team we were traveling, we were going to lets see what county was it up there, we played in Adair County and I can't remember what the, what the county seat over Adair County was. Well I don't, that makes no difference but I'm thinking about how I had G., I had G.J., Bob Guyette, Steve Lochmueller, somebody else, we traveled by car then and I was, I was driving the car and we were going up the interstate and we had to cut off of the interstate going towards Somerset, could've been, could've been Somerset we were going to instead of Adair County but anyhow 62:00we was traveling along, and old Bob of course was the brain, we was talking about and he asked G.J. he said, G.J. what's, what's the population of Somerset", and G.J. says, "Well I don't know", and old Bob you know being the Yankee he said, Well Jesus Christ you lived here all your life and you don't know what the population of Somerset is", and I remember G.J. said, "Well I recon your so smart you know the population of every town in Illinois." (Suchanek and Keightley laugh) It, it was his response (unintelligible-Keightley is talking and laughing) he was aggravated, yes.

SUCHANEK: Sometimes that's a, that's a fun mix isn't it.

KEIGHTLEY: It is.

63:00

SUCHANEK: When you get people from different parts of the country, urban verses rural kids, and they interact and I imagine those are, those are big times and I'm sure there are times there's friction too.

KEIGHTLEY: Well it can, it can lead to it but you know they all finally, it's a give and take thing. But G.J. was a real skilled baseball player as well as a basketball player and again he went through here with very little fanfare, was a, was a really good outside shooter but he graduated went back to Laurel County and became a coach and a principal, no an athletic director, became a coach and an athletic director at 64:00maybe North Laurel High School and that's, that's where he is today. He has not retired, he's still teaching but he's not coaching anymore, he's just athletic director.

SUCHANEK: Ok. Let's see, who else haven't we talked about? Well, how about Steve Lochmueller?

KEIGHTLEY: Well now Stevie, If there's anything that you wanted to know on this campus the four years Steve Lochmueller was here just go to Steve Lochmueller. He knew everything that was happening and I'm serious he knew it, it wasn't a rumor, he knew it. (Suchanek laughs) He's from Tell City, Indiana and he's another one of my very favorite people ever came through here. He was, his dad played and was a 65:00very skilled player for University of Louisville, Bob Lochmueller. But Steve came here as a football and basketball player. Well he gave up, I think he played a little football his freshmen year but he, he gave that up. He was 6'7", he was strong, very aggressive and in fact I remember Joe B. started Steve over Bob Guyette in one game somewhere and by golly Steve had a heck of a game. I believe, I believe it was against Auburn but Steve had a, you know an outstanding game but after Steve's 66:00junior year he, he gave basketball up. He, he graduated, he went into business with a company, I can't think of the name of it, he was with them for several years it was highly successful but, but he left that company about three years ago and now he is running the Somerset boat building company, they build custom made boats for the rivers or they can build ocean bearing boats also. SUCHANEK: In Somerset?

KEIGHTLEY: In Somerset.

SUCHANEK: How do they get those things...?

KEIGHTLEY: Well they can, it's a long way you know but they, they can get 'em there.

SUCHANEK: I guess it...

KEIGHTLEY: Old Dudley Webb had one. You know Ed, it was an ocean 67:00actually ocean vessel but they brought that thing through I don't know Mississippi to Ohio River and got it right on into Somerset. Well got it to Jamestown and Dudley finally he sold it to some company so they take, they, they took it away.

SUCHANEK: So it was a yacht? It was a yacht?

KEIGHTLEY: Yes, yes, yes.

SUCHANEK: I'm looking here, it seems like in 73-74 you start to see African Americans coming on to the team, the first one that I see here is Reggie Warford. 68:00(interview interrupted-phone ringing) Reggie Warford?

KEIGHTLEY: Reggie Warford, Dillard, you gotta see this kid, Reggie Warford (interview interrupted-phone ringing) Drakesboro, Kentucky, yeah Reg was one of the early pioneers and he roomed with Bob Guyette (Suchanek and Keightley laugh) but, but Reggie was a, was a real fine young man and you know back then to even in that period of time it, it was still a little bit different because integration it was still in the early stages.

SUCHANEK: Sure.

69:00

KEIGHTLEY: And, but it was moving along well. But, but Reggie came in and became a very popular member of the team because he was a, a skilled person. He was a piano player and he, he was a singer and we used to you know Reggie used to entertain a lot. You know we'd go some place where they'd have a piano Reggie'd sit down knock off a few songs do a little singing and you know back then actually everybody sang a song; it wasn't like it is today. You know just where you got a bunch of noise. I mean you actually had words to a song that you could understand and no Reg, Reg came in here and he played an important part for the, the early African 70:00Americans and, and left here and has had a very illustrious career, he's had health problems and that sort of thing but...

SUCHANEK: Where's he at? KEIGHTLEY: I, right now he is back in Pittsburgh but just for I think he's moving back to Kentucky. I saw him about a month ago. I think he's moving back to Kentucky, he's got a couple of kids, he's got one kid he thinks gonna be a pretty good player but he's trying to, he had been a assistant coach at Pittsburgh at one time and he's trying now to get back into the coaching field.

SUCHANEK: At the high school level or...?

71:00

KEIGHTLEY: No, he's, he's, he's trying to get to college level.

SUCHANEK: Ok.

KEIGHTLEY: So he's, he was early on he was kinda interested in the Morehead job as a head coach but I don't know how far he pursued it so but that was last time I saw him because he stopped in here on his way to meet with those people.

SUCHANEK: How was Reggie Warford accepted by the other players?

KEIGHTLEY: Oh he was, they was fine. You know what if, if, if, we've always said young people and when I say young people I'm talking about real young people kids 6 and 7 years old. If the whole word could get along like little kids there'd be no 72:00problems. And you know it carries over now today to, to athletics in general, it really does. You know it's like I don't, I don't think if, if old Dillard's here, I mean I'm always so glad to see him and you know, oh it just well its become a way of life that should've been that's all. And when things are what they're supposed to be it's not any problem, it's the people that try to you know, you know people that try to control things, you know control is an illusion you never control anything but yourself and most of the time you don't know what you'd like to do (Suchanek laughs) but it's a fact people like to think they're control freaks, I mean I'm talking about basketball coaches, they think they can 73:00control somebody's life and make them so and so...

SUCHANEK: Like Bobby Knight.

KEIGHTLEY: There's no way, there is no way, you think you can but you can't because only you know what you're gonna do, that guy he might think that he controls you but he don't know what you're gonna do so it's just an illusion. (Suchanek and Keightley laugh) So...

SUCHANEK: And I think you know historically athletics has, has been the great equalizer hasn't it. You know if you look at, at the integration of baseball...

KEIGHTLEY: Yes.

SUCHANEK: you know...

KEIGHTLEY: Yeah it's been.

SUCHANEK: it, it, it makes a difference when suddenly you know your favorite player on the team is a different race or a different ethnicity...

KEIGHTLEY: Yeah sure.

SUCHANEK: than you are.

KEIGHTLEY: Yes, yeah it the...

SUCHANEK: It makes it easier for you to accept people in society in general I think.

KEIGHTLEY: Yes it has, yes it's, it has, it has been there's no doubt about it it's 74:00a leader as far as I'm concerned which maybe it shouldn't be but, but it is a leader.

SUCHANEK: It's kinda like the armed services...

KEIGHTLEY: Yes.

SUCHANEK: in, in that way.

KEIGHTLEY: Yeah. You know I let a editorial get away from me the other day that I thought was one of the best that I'd ever read about integration and of course you know Bill Cosby in my opinion he's, he's drawn the you know anger from some of his own people but I I think he is, is one of the finest examples of how all people should be. I know what I'm talking about this don't have anything to do with that but basically 75:00the editorial was that he was addressing some women's organization of African American women and he told 'em, he said, "you know you are the people that's gotta control the future for the African Americans because you women are strong, you're the ones that's raising our kids, the African American male is not there, the whole weight is upon you because the African American male in general is not there to support you", and that's the truth. You know the grandmothers and the mothers have to raise these kids and I thought you know that's, that hit another sore spot I guess.

SUCHANEK: How about Steve Green?

KEIGHTLEY: Who?

SUCHANEK: Steve Green.

76:00

KEIGHTLEY: Steve Green, yeah he was a football player.

SUCHANEK: Oh I was wondering because this is the first time his and this is the 73-74 team and he's listed as a senior but he wasn't on the team before that. KEIGHTLEY: Yeah he was a football player, he just walked on here. As we, squad was a little short he never played much, a real nice, a real nice person, he was from Cincinnati, Ohio. Yeah.

SUCHANEK: Ok. Roger Wood?

KEIGHTLEY: Roger Wood, yeah.

SUCHANEK: He was a big guy.

KEIGHTLEY: Oh big old boy. His greatest claim to fame was he could eat more than any human was ever here. (Suchanek laughs) That's, that's it. (Suchanek and Keightley laugh) We, we, we've said it all. (Suchanek and Keightley laugh) He, yeah, 77:00he came as a freshman, he stuck it out most of his freshman year and he quit and then I don't know two or three years later he resurfaced here again and they let him you know walk on for a little while and then he quit again.

SUCHANEK: He just didn't have the talent?

KEIGHTLEY: He, yeah he, he you know he could've had some talent he just never did get very disciplined.

SUCHANEK: Ok.

KEIGHTLEY: Just you know some people just can't get her together. I don't know what, what Roger may be doing today but you know he wasn't he wasn't hard to work with but it just didn't work out.

SUCHANEK: It seems like just because he was 6'10" maybe people thought he could, he should be playing basketball and maybe he didn't want to.

KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, yeah, yeah, he, awe man he was a huge individual. He 78:00played with a kid, Greg Starrick was a member of that freshman team and Greg just played let me see...

SUCHANEK: Has to be just this one year.

KEIGHTLEY: actually one year, yeah.

SUCHANEK: Yeah one year.

KEIGHTLEY: Yeah one year and he threw it in. So, yeah Roger, Roger passed through here and that's about it.

SUCHANEK: Was he, he was recruited wasn't he.

KEIGHTLEY: Oh yeah, he was recruited.

SUCHANEK: Ok.

KEIGHTLEY: Yeah because he was huge and he you know...

SUCHANEK: He was from Buffalo Grove, Illinois.

KEIGHTLEY: Well that's right, Buffalo Grove, yes. That's like another kid that we recruited from Buffalo Grove, his name was Brian Altmiller and he wound up at 79:00Vandy, was a fair player but I remember I gave him the nickname although he never did come here, with him quite a bit when we was recruiting him, he's always called him "Buffalo" Brian, Brian Altmiller. And last year he brought his son here to father- son camp although he lives in Nashville now but yeah I never lost touch with Brian but he was from Buffalo Grove.

SUCHANEK: And I think the last one we'll talk about today is David Miller. Do you remember David Miller?

KEIGHTLEY: Yes sir. David...

SUCHANEK: He was from Carrolton.

KEIGHTLEY: Yep, he, he, he was from Carrolton. He played I believe played, 80:00yes he played at Henry County, Henry County High School. Yeah David came here and was a, was a, he was a good old tough big old, bought 6'5"-6'6" kid. He came here stayed here for a couple years and then he transferred I believe to Marshall and finished his career up there but I; I haven't seen David for a number of years now.

SUCHANEK: Ok.

KEIGHTLEY: But, he, he, he was a, was a pretty decent basketball player but you know the Kentucky program is not for everybody, I mean over the years or neither is anybody else's. You know sometimes you just gotta seek where you think you can better yourself so.

81:00

SUCHANEK: Well, ok I think we'll just stop; I've wasted enough of your day.

KEIGHTLEY: You have, well, fine, fine.

SUCHANEK: And we got through 1974 anyway.

KEIGHTLEY: Yes

SUCHANEK: So we, we'll pick up where we left off today alright.

KEIGHTLEY: Yeah, sure.

SUCHANEK: I appreciate it.

KEIGHTLEY: Yes sir that's fine.

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