0:00

LANE: Coming in, um, does that sound good to you? Okay. These things are wonderful. I can take this back and put it on my computer.

BIRD: Well, that's great.

LANE: Phillip turned me--(laughs)--on to all this--

BIRD: Good.

LANE: --technology.

BIRD: Good.

LANE: But, would you, please review the highlights of your professional career leading to your position at KCTCS.

BIRD: Well, I'll start off with the fact that what I think is, is, is significant, uh, actually, uh, goes to a meeting that I had with Mike McCall, on January 6th of 1999.

LANE: Ninety-nine.

BIRD: And he came here, I believe on the 11th--

LANE: Yeah.

BIRD: --of January, 1999. So I met with him in his office in Columbia, and as a president who had been roughly there around eighteen months, in, uh, Central Carolina, uh, Mike was on my interviewing team, uh, obviously as he would be from the head of the system, but I was, you know, hired by a local commission with the support of the system 1:00office, you know, and after--and with, with an extensive background search and so forth, and, uh, and then, you know, what he came up was the, when I--he had been down to visit one of, uh, my, uh, Rotary meetings, and, you know, I talked to him about the fact that when I found out where he was going--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --and building a new system that, to keep me in mind if he ever had something he wanted me to do, because that, for reasons I'll get into, something very much attracted to me and also I was very much attracted to Mike McCall as a leader.

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: Uh, and, and with his vision, but on that date, the 6th of January, he showed me the vision that people had for KCTCS which is really the sort of dual system of--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --vocation, of a tra-, a technical school track, and then a 2:00community college track, and then sort of, you know, here's the president of KCTCS, you know, two chancellors, you know--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --two, two of everything. And then he said, "Here is my vision," and at that time also on his white board was the ASP program which was his acronym--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --of how he was going to come in, which I'm not sure he didn't want to hear about, and, uh, so I went through that. But I looked, I looked at his vision and we talked in his office, went to downtown Columbia to the club for a nice lunch talking about that and, you know, frankly I was, I was really excited. Now, when I had taken the job at Central Carolina, and, and years later I found out when I told my board chair, that, uh, you know, that I was considering--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --but didn't--it was really past tense, I was doing it. Uh, going to work for Mike, uh, in you know, in, in, uh, Kentucky as, as his 3:00chancellor, uh, and particularly to do the work that Mike wanted which, which was really around consolidating--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --these institutions, and my commissioner said, "Well, you know, I, I always knew that this would probably happen," he says, "because on the day of your interview, during a break, uh, Mike McCall came out and told my chair, "If you don't hire this guy, I am." (Lane laughs) Uh, I learned that after--

LANE: --after the fact--

BIRD: --after, after, after the fact, so, um, and I think, and, and I had the opportunity, because sort of acting, uh, commissioner of the New Hampshire system--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --and so from that sort of--

LANE: Right.

BIRD: --career is the fact that, that goes into some of the things I think might have, uh, really attracted, uh, Mike to my background, because I had a rather interesting, uh, background. I came out of, 4:00you know, from a full-time faculty position in the university, to, uh, head up a major, uh, work-force, uh, part-time student graduate, undergraduate, conferences and workshops, statewide programs, business and industry background--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --with some, some work and some key, you know, innovative programs for, uh, for Connecticut, and then I had been hired under a Kellogg grant to set up a statewide continuing education network with two, with two purposes, one was to increase the number of adult education so, just coming back and majoring, it was particularly, uh, uh, women coming back to, uh, higher education, uh, and colleges and universities were really unprepared for that influx of--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --adult learners.

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: And secondly then to create a network to help, uh, colleges and universities, both two and four-year universities in our consortium to, to basically, uh, uh, work and providing training to business 5:00and industry, and that became, called the New Hampshire Continuing Education Network. Uh, and of which I eventually, you know, headed up that project--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --and it was extremely successful in both accounts as we looked to incorporate adult, uh, learners, and I worked with Dartmouth down to, University of New Hampshire, down to, uh, Notre Dame College for Women, very small campus, where we had our consortium office, and that program, that grant program was so successful, uh, particularly in raising revenue, with contracts, in terms of the technical arrangements we did--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --that I was, uh, assigned by the university presidents to be a loaned executive to John Sununu in his--

LANE: Hmm.

BIRD: --first year of administration--

LANE: Is that right?

BIRD: --and so, Sununu asked me to do three things, number one, help set up this new technical college system that was going to be separated from the Department of Education in New Hampshire, and so I worked with 6:00him on establishing a new central office, and a new position, uh, many of whom thought I was creating my own the job, but I wasn't, uh, the second was to, uh, uh, work with the small business high development, uh, small business, uh, high growth, whatever, it was similar to Boston's, uh, to Massachusetts, uh, high tech kind of consortium--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --so I worked with entrepreneurs, and, you know, very innovative people on that and the governor, and then the third, was something he wanted me to go over and assist the transition staff to the, uh, New Hampshire job training program, JTPA--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --so there's the public work-force system. Well, I ended up, as director of operations and training, the number two person in that organization, but I designed all of the customized training, I, I developed that whole area, uh, in that position, and then, when the, uh, the politician who had been assigned decided to go and do something 7:00political, uh, the person who was in the number two position asked me to move from--essentially I was, as a consul-, as a loaned executive--

LANE: Right.

BIRD: I was running the whole department--

LANE: Right.

BIRD: --on all the training done on a statewide basis, and the governor dissolved the state bureaucracy for employment and training, and created a private, uh, you know, non-profit company--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --to do all the job training.

LANE: Hmm.

BIRD: Very novel approach. Sununu was a brilliant person, uh--

LANE: Yes.

BIRD: --I, I did some--

LANE: I noticed that.

BIRD: --some work for him, and, uh, and then to get out, I loved job training but I wanted to get back into college, and, because of my extensive background in accreditation--

LANE: Yes.

BIRD: --I was very active in New England, um, I was asked to become, uh, join a, a statewide proprietary school--

LANE: Hmm.

BIRD: --for lots of money, and I did that, and I, I did, I did, uh, uh, it was a good experience, I got them fully accredited, the third 8:00institution, and, uh, did one association, proprietary institution to become regionally accredited, and, and then I, in six years, I went back and at this time to be commissioner of the, uh, two-year college system that I got involved with, and that person had, was the person who had been the head of the job training council--

LANE: Ah ha.

BIRD: --who had asked me to give up my--

LANE: Right.

BIRD: --my liaison with the governor, and, and--

LANE: Hmm.

BIRD: --so, I took over his job.

LANE: Hmm.

BIRD: Uh, uh, uh, no, he, he said, "I," you know, he's, I asked him for a job recommendation, and he says, "You're real serious about leaving this time." And I said, "Yes, I am." He said, "Well, how would you like to be my deputy commissioner?" "You have a deputy commissioner." He said, "Yeah, but I think when I move, I'll make him president of this college, and then I'll bring you in." So I was appointed, uh--

LANE: Sure.

BIRD: --deputy commissioner of, uh, New Hampshire's system, and the role I had there was really the role that I always envisioned this 9:00office, and particularly the first, uh, you know, most of the nine years I've been here certainly. I still view it, but I think I can see where it's changing, and that was that, that, the chancellor's office, particularly since when I started, we had dueling chancellors, we had a technical college chancellor--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --and we had a community college chancellor.

LANE: Community college.

BIRD: And, uh, Tony Newberry, of course was the community college chancellor, he had been here, and Mike--largely he was in that role--

LANE: Right.

BIRD: --that was confirmed and the position Mike had was the technical college chancellor, so I went through all the appropriate interviews and steps, uh, to do that, and, uh, uh, but in, in, in doing the job of the two-year system it was just R and D, I was a skunk works, grants and contracts--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --reported to me, like it does here--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --the peer groups that I worked with, with work-force development because of my background and also academic affairs, uh, you know, and New Hampshire is not, is not a big system, we had seven major campuses--

10:00

LANE: Right.

BIRD: --and the extension campuses, but, uh, we obviously were building a, a new system and, and, and moving more and more towards a comprehensive model, so, actually, uh, I remember, uh, and look what happened is that at one point, we were always given these challenges by the governors, uh, and, uh, I had, the last governor was Steve Merrill who, if, if, uh, he hadn't done such a bad job with, uh, uh, Bob Dole--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --uh, in the last election against Clinton, uh, he probably would have been head of the Republican Party, but I, I did some speech stuffs for, you know, for him--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --so you have a, you--

LANE: Right.

BIRD: --in New Hampshire you have intimate contact with governors, and legislators--

LANE: Oh.

BIRD: --and so forth.

LANE: I'm sure.

BIRD: But, uh, again the beauty of that role was Jeff did most of legislative stuff, I mean I had to cover for him--

LANE: Right.

BIRD: --and I had to do some of it--

LANE: Right.

BIRD: --but I would just, you know, and, and I remember, we ran into an 11:00issue where we had to do some major funding cuts and so we re-invented the two-year college system, and what we did is we consolidated institutions--

LANE: Oh.

BIRD: --and created regional--(Lane laughs)--comprehensive community technical colleges and then I instituted a, uh, a, a, uh, transfer program, uh, it's one of the last things I did for that system, and created technology deployment centers, I established, uh, New Hampshire manufacturing extension program run by--

LANE: Yes.

BIRD: --the community college system from NIST out of New York, uh, I worked very closely with Economic Development in, in the state, uh, a, a lot of experience--

LANE: Yes.

BIRD: --that, I think, uh, when I, when I was serving as, uh, sort of interim, uh--by the way, we had four presidents go south on us, we fired all of them, and I had to take over two colleges--(Lane laughs)-- and personally consolidate them while still doing a lot of my deputy--

12:00

LANE: --deputy--

BIRD: --commissioner--

LANE: --business.

BIRD: --although we put somebody in there, I was still working, I was working, I think I only have two governor's pictures in this room right now--

LANE: Hmm.

BIRD: --uh, but one of them, Jeanne Shaheen--

LANE: Hmm.

BIRD: --was going to run against John Sununu, Jr. for senator--

LANE: Hmm.

BIRD: --uh, in this next election, but she, she was really good. She put me on, uh, on AmeriCorps, the national--

LANE: All right.

BIRD: --executive sessions, so I was very involved with service learning and helped found, found Campus Compact. I knew everybody in New England--

LANE: Yes you did.

BIRD: --and, in the state, so it was a real shock coming down to a southern association and, meeting, you know, going to a conference and there's four thousand people there, so, uh, plus, you know, SACS and that, but, I, I was, I was really, uh, had a chance to meet Mike, at a, and spend time with him and meet Carolyn at a, uh, uh, at meetings of the state directors of two-year colleges--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --they meet every year, we met in Rhode Island, at, uh, Newport, 13:00and, uh, ate a lot of lobster, and of course that was home territory for me, and really got a chance to know Mike on a personal level, and then, as I went down to South Carolina, you know, being a system person--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --and having been a line person--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --at university, and then community colleges, uh, I just had a great deal of empathy for his role, because the South Carolina system was different. I, I asked, uh, one of the presidents during my interview how he would characterize it, and interestingly enough, in the South you call it a confederation.

LANE: You did.

BIRD: So, you know--

LANE: Wow.

BIRD: --and then Mike was, uh, it was interesting, I think there's a lot of jealousy among certain of the old time presidents against him--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --because he'd had a very, uh, quick, what they thought, quick rise--

LANE: --rise--

BIRD: --to ----------(??).

LANE: Right.

BIRD: But I just, you know, if Mike McCall called me and my board chair called me, okay, which call would I answer first? Well, first of all, you always take care of your board--

14:00

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --but I'd probably call Mike back--

LANE: Right.

BIRD: --because Mike--I just respected him that much, so--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --we kind of had that relationship, and so, actually, uh, he brought Candace Gosnell-- now--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --and myself up from South Carolina.

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: And then, uh, really, uh, but I, but I remember one of my key mentors and in New Hampshire was sort of the dean of deans--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --he should have been a president--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --a thousand times over--

LANE: Hmm.

BIRD: --he could have been. He actually chaired the New England regional accrediting association for, uh, I think for one or, one or two years terms, so, you know, he always used to say, "And this is Keith, you know, I know you've been a president up here and you've done that," he says, but, he says, "I don't see you as being a president," he says, "That's not where your, your, your strength is, your strength is in ideas--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --and it's concepts, and, and vision and doing programmatic things," and, uh, you know, I just, I think he saw me a lot like, 15:00uh, like himself, he could have been president, but why deal with the legislative stuff--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --and the budget stuff--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --and, you know--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --I mean, and, and I, I did it in New Hampshire, and certainly I had to do it in South Carolina, to the extent that I, being eighteen months there to do it--

LANE: Right.

BIRD: --and, you know, I could do it, but the point was, it, and then, having the opportunity to come up and, and Tony being the kind of personality he was, he really, uh, facilitated my work on a lot of the ideas, particularly around curriculum, and moving, you know, what we had to do with, uh, integrating curriculum and moving towards this consolidation--

LANE: Right.

BIRD: --and so Tony and I were able to really distribute, and at that time too Mike kind of had a different role. I think he put, uh, Tony and I more out, you know, and--

LANE: Right.

BIRD: --with, I think, targets on our back, you know--

16:00

LANE: Right. (laughs)

BIRD: --um, and, and of course we'd moved from, we'd moved from that work clearly, you know, you know, Mike is, is, is, is the leader and--

LANE: Yeah.

BIRD: --we fill in as, as we need for him, and then--

LANE: But you were in the trenches then--

BIRD: We were--

LANE: --basically.

BIRD: --very much, yeah, in the trenches. My first meeting, uh, my first week, uh, consisted of the following: being in a cabinet meeting with Mike--

LANE: Right.

BIRD: --and having a delegation from Pike County show up, uh, and it wasn't Mike McCall in that with--he sent me down there to deal with this angry mob who wanted their own college in Pikeville, which was really going to be part of the Mayo Technical College campus.

LANE: Right.

BIRD: And, uh, and incidentally that June, I got a call from Paul Patton, who, uh, I talked to him the other night at the gala about that and, and, and I knew he wasn't calling to give me birthday wishes, and he called to make sure that his Pike County neighbors, you know, understood they weren't getting their own college, and--

LANE: Hmm, but so, you knew you had his full support.

17:00

BIRD: --full support. I also had a chance to tell him what we were doing.

LANE: Right.

BIRD: And, and it was a vision of consolidation, one merger, and moving ahead on that. And he says, "Well, I'm, that, that's more than I ever could hope for in a year," so--

LANE: Right.

BIRD: --I always remember that. I kidded him about that the other night--

LANE: I remember that call.

BIRD: --because I said, and, uh--

LANE: Because it could have been--

BIRD: Yeah.

LANE: --in old Kentucky politics totally the opposite--

BIRD: Oh, yeah.

LANE: --the governor calling to say--

BIRD: I want it--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --separate.

LANE: -----------(??).

BIRD: And then the sec-, the second call, the sec-, the second thing that I think I did in that first week, was sent down to Bowling Green to deal with Barbara Burch, the provost of Western Kentucky University--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --to get, uh, to tell her that Bowling Green Technical College was going to be offering an associate degree, and that I was taking that through the process for IT, and, and, you know, a nice four-hour meeting in which, basically, we had to, you know, do the puffing up, you know, bird dance, you know--

LANE: Sure.

18:00

BIRD: --you know, where you--

LANE: I got it, I--

BIRD: --where you, where you-- LANE: --I see it now.

BIRD: --pre-, where you preen yourself, and, you know, what do you know about community colleges--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --because she, she was trying to argue against, and basically they should offer the associate degree, and--

LANE: Hmm.

BIRD: --Bowling Green would simply offer the courses, and so we went through, and established the fact that they would be, I would be taking it to CPE that they would get that, and then we talked about a respiratory tech of which there was a real opportunity for collaboration--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --so actually agreed to initial a joint program--

LANE: Right.

BIRD: --for whatever were more tactical purposes at the time. Well, after I finished that, after four hours and however long we were there, she came back and said, "Well, if you agree to do that, why can't we go back to the IT degree and make that a joint degree," no.

LANE: Hmm.

BIRD: So, that--

LANE: --give her things--

BIRD: --I, I--

LANE: -------------(??) do that.

BIRD: --I, I think I hit the ground running, and then of course Mike--

LANE: You did.

BIRD: --Mike was off going around to all the colleges--

LANE: Right.

BIRD: --and so he was having me and, and Tony go, go with him--

LANE: Yeah.

BIRD: --or me.

LANE: But at that time you were dealing with a state in which the 19:00regionals had in the back of their mind, perhaps, let's see if this is a fair assessment of what I've been reading, maybe if this new system doesn't work, we'll get the community colleges.

BIRD: Well, Western's a particular thing, because they have, they had a entity, they still do, an entity within the university--

LANE: Right.

BIRD: --it's Bowling Green Community College--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --and, and I think the technical college, you know, they just, uh, the, the fact was that it established that Barbara knew very well what a comprehensive community technical college was, and so it was the issue is, is, as I've continued ----------(??) as recently as a year ago when Bowling Green went for its nursing program, of having to deal with that issue--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --and of course we have subsequently had meetings with Gary Ransdell and, and, uh, I think we could have moved more aggressively down there, but, uh, Jody Richards was--

LANE: Yeah.

BIRD: --in favor of, of you know, you've worked too hard to build up enrollment, and, and certain-, certainly Gary would have wanted some things, but you know, we did have early discussions on those areas, and 20:00of course Northern Kentucky worked very well, with what, with Mike and what we were trying to do up there, and--

LANE: Right.

BIRD: --Mike and I flew down on the, on a Learjet, I remember, to, uh, with Jim and, and representatives from Economic Development to got down and visit Fayetteville, Fayetteville Technical College in North Carolina, and then Charleston to look at a comprehensive college and how that kind of fit--that could be an ally in facilitating what Northern was doing so, even though that has yet to be realized primarily, I think, because of the need to get SACS accreditation--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --that, uh, I, I think there is a great deal of promise and Eastern is kind of, Eastern they were out of it--

LANE: Right.

BIRD: --Morehead was not, uh, Mike and I did some early work with them on some agreements on--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --again I think it's a respiratory technology program, uh, and of course we knew--both, Mike and I both knew the precedent from working in South Carolina at Morehead. Um, so, and then and, I think the other high point of my meeting with the faculty is we started to get 21:00together to meet with the faculty groups, was a meeting I had up at the Executive West, uh, in Louisville, and we met with all of the, uh, uh, essentially what I call the, almost the trades, the very vocational technical programs--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --the welders--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --you know, and, uh, machine tools, and all of that--

LANE: Was during the first year--

BIRD: Yeah.

LANE: --that first year--

BIRD: During the first year--

LANE: Right.

BIRD: --and, and I went in and I, I gave a, I gave a speech, a speech that I had been giving since New Hampshire, and that is the idea of a performance-based, uh, academic program, competency based, you know, the new competency--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --based where, where there was a real emphasis on soft skills where general education, which, unfortunately, that was the worse thing that ever came out of the, of, of the technical schools, as they had a non-standard general education. It was not the traditional general education, so therefore, you know, I mean you couldn't even begin to contextualize it, you had to change it. Plus, you had all these 22:00faculty who were teaching those courses, so it, it obviously had to be a transitional type of, uh, of approach. But I always remember, as I gave the speech, and I gave a speech about, uh, essentially chunking down the curriculum, modulizing and so forth and there had been a decision, obviously, that we were going to move from, you know, the twenty, uh, courses, uh, uh, terms that, that technical college had with semester and moving to the, uh, three hour, uh, credit, just the sort of the--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --you know, the, the primary, uh, way in which we would look at our academic programs, you know, again a traditional model. I would have liked to have been in on earlier discussions to see about some variations on that, because of things that, that we had done in New England that were much more adult, uh--

LANE: Hmm.

BIRD: --friendly and much more, uh, I th-, I think, uh, uh, comprehensive.

LANE: But that decision had been made--

BIRD: But that's -----------(??)--

LANE: --for a year and a half--

BIRD: --so, so, so, I -----------(??)--

23:00

LANE: --but the foundation had been laid.

BIRD: Yeah, the foundation had been laid.

LANE: Before you came.

BIRD: So I, I, uh, basically gave this speech on--I painted a view of the curriculum in the future.

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: And, it was essentially, totally like Michael Fox in Back to the Future, when he did that "Johnny B. Goode" guitar riff--

LANE: (laughs) Yeah.

BIRD: --and everyone's looking at him--

LANE: -----------(??).

BIRD: --and there's, and he said, "Oh, excuse me," you know, "I'm sorry, you're not ready for this, but your children will be."

LANE: Uh.

BIRD: And I--

LANE: Huh.

BIRD: --I finished that, because at one point, uh, a faculty member interrupted me and he said, "Excuse me, we used to teach, you know, forty weeks a year, blah, blah, blah--

LANE: Um-hm, um-hm.

BIRD: --like this and during the summer and now we're going down and teach these fifteen, sixteen-week semesters. All I want to know is I got a job."

LANE: Oh.

BIRD: And I said, "Excuse me, excuse me, I'm sorry that, you know, you're not ready for this conversation."

LANE: Right.

BIRD: And I did, I did indeed do that--

LANE: Right.

BIRD: --in a demeaning way, I just said, "I apologize to you, I know what your concerns are. Let me tell you, what I've expressed to you is 24:00where we're going--

LANE: Yeah.

BIRD: --but we're going to get there by working together and really coming together, uh, with, with the community college," because, you know, constantly I found myself, you know, educating people, because the community vis-a-vis technical college thing was so strong culturally in this state, you essentially had the community college people believe that people in technical college had grease running down--

LANE: That's right.

BIRD: --their arms, and the technical college thought that the community college people only taught by textbook and chalkboard.

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: Um, and, and that played itself out more and more as we got into the merger discussion, when in fact, the only difference between the technical college and the community college was that the, the technical college did not offer the general education, and they did not offer the transfer program, but a lot of the programs, even including some of the occupational technical programs were, were, uh, you know, very much 25:00the same. So, uh, you know, those, those type of--and then brought, we brought in elements like Credit for Prior Learning, which I have to say is, just last night, I was working on re-invigorating that and tying it in to the virtual learning initiative--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --because, unlike other, many, many other successful programs, and marketing to adults, the Credit for Prior Learning, you know, the whole thing is, is, is, you know, the days of--the semester, semester is a dinosaur.

LANE: Hmm.

BIRD: If you go much more to, uh, to bi-term courses, and--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --and, and all sorts of schedules, and--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --you know, open entry, uh, open exit, closed entry, a lot of different things that, that I had done in the past, fractionalized credit we introduced--

LANE: Hmm.

BIRD: --BIT credit, the conversion uh, uh, of, of non-credit courses, which essentially are college competency simply rearranged for business should carry credit--

LANE: Hmm.

BIRD: --and should lead to a credential--

26:00

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --that, that's a, that's kind of a national issue that I've been involved with, this non-credit versus credit, because so many programs for disadvantaged, uh, uh, students, uh, trying to get, increase their job--

LANE: Right.

BIRD: --capability are done in a non-credit area.

LANE: Right.

BIRD: And then, you know, there's this, this somewhat a traditional, uh, gulf, between quote-unquote, the academic side of the house and the work-force side of the house.

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: There's a lot of mythologies, well again, being a work-force person, you know, and also having strong academic--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --coming out of a traditional--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --academic thing, I can, I could, I could see what that world was doing--

LANE: Surely.

BIRD: --and so, I mean what we were, what we always envisioned was a, uh, then you heard, were you at, you were at the gala the other night.

LANE: No, I'm sorry--

BIRD: Oh, you weren't.

LANE: --I had to miss this one.

BIRD: But, but, Mike was, you know, and things that I introduced, which, you know, are not original, but, you know, the just-in-time, and just- 27:00enough, and just-for-you, which I always liked it when Mary Beth came here, because she had a two in the dev-, you know, had two ---------- (??) device, you know, in other words introducing technology, uh, into this, and, uh, and that, that again, that's been one of the really fun things, uh is, in addition to the hard slogging work--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --of a consolidation, and each one of those consolidations has a story written in blood--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --uh--

LANE: Yeah.

BIRD: --in some varying degrees, which itself is, it will be worth even potentially, if you were interested in going over each one very, uh, you know--

LANE: I think we probably--

BIRD: --quick--

LANE: --should.

BIRD: --quick, quickly, because--

LANE: We probably should do that.

BIRD: --because, because there is some funny stories in that as well as, as, uh, some lessons, and, and personalities--

LANE: Let me--

BIRD: --you know.

LANE: --allow me to make a note, unless you'd like to do it now.

BIRD: I, I just don't think--

LANE: No, I don't think we should.

BIRD: --we're going to get to it.

LANE: Let me make--and I'd love to get back together with you.

BIRD: Yeah.

LANE: I think that would be, that's important to capture--

28:00

BIRD: Yeah.

LANE: Don't you think?

BIRD: Well, yeah, because, you know, the, the, the first board meeting I went to after my confirmation in February was in April, and it's at the April meeting that we came up with the declaration of--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --you know, consolidation of function, services--

LANE: --Right.

BIRD: --and programs.

LANE: Right.

BIRD: And, and I, I guess if I have my part of my, my ego says that I'm the one that introduced the concept, you know, community-driven, that everything had to be community- driven, I mean, I, that's the, because we sat--

LANE: That's the success on a--

BIRD: --Beth Hilliard--

LANE: --um-hm.

BIRD: --and myself, and Tony, and the--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --and everybody else got in the back there, and we were trying to working on this resolution, uh, on how it, on how it would be done--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --so that--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --Hazard meeting is a is a, you know, this is one of those pivotal--

LANE: Yes.

BIRD: --a pivotal meetings, and, and, and really started the process and, and then, then it went, it went from there.

LANE: Okay.

BIRD: But meanwhile, you know, we--

LANE: We will pick-up with that. I, I really think--

BIRD: Yeah.

LANE: --we should capture it.

BIRD: We, we found ourselves, uh, you know, in the early days, everything being so new, like I remember working with Tim Burcham on, 29:00you know, our certificates, and--

LANE: Yes.

BIRD: --diplomas--

LANE: Yes.

BIRD: --wording was important. One of our first major crisis was, uh, the fact that, uh, I think it started at Somerset and spread to some of the UK Community Colleges that we weren't going to have the University of Kentucky on there, and so we, we dealt with those kind of political issues.

LANE: Yes.

BIRD: Um, but there was a, uh, a very interesting article, which I think you ought to, to, to find--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --and that was the Herald-Leader. I think it was the first weekend I was in town, had an article by their education person, her name escapes me, she eventually left, but it was about the whole community technical college thing and, and, it's a great snapshot of attitudes and everything.

LANE: I'll check it--

BIRD: And--

LANE: --they may have it.

BIRD: --and, it's--

LANE: So that would have been in, um--

BIRD: March.

LANE: --March of--

BIRD: Ninety-nine.

LANE: --I'll check it.

BIRD: And I, I just like it. I met her later--

LANE: Okay.

BIRD: I really liked her and I always -----------(??).

30:00

LANE: Who was she?

BIRD: She was a--

LANE: Oh, I know that--

BIRD: --an Afro-American, uh, young lady.

LANE: Oh, well, I don't know if -----------(??)--

BIRD: And, uh--

LANE: --but I'll check it.

BIRD: --and, uh, I just I forget her name, but, uh, but she--

LANE: I'll look at it.

BIRD: --she had done it sort of, you know--because there is a real kind of capture, they interviewed people about--

LANE: Yeah.

BIRD: --how they thought things, and it's, it's kind of a snapshot that probably says, well here is what it was. Also, I remember, it was, uh, one of the first trips; the first college I went to is Laurel Tech--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --and, uh, we were down there, and the faculty who really were performing, uh, the function also with a nearby high school, which is across the parking lot, of being really the secondary technical, uh, career technical program for high school students, and the, the faculty would get up and say, "How long do we have to, you know, continue to teach these high school students?"

LANE: Hmm.

BIRD: And Dr. McCall says, "Keith, you know, you aren't fit (??)."

LANE: ----------(??).

BIRD: --and I, and I got up there and I said, "Why wouldn't you?" I said, "I think this is extremely important to send back--I see your 31:00ability to do theirs, we could move into dual credit." Well, that was the beginning of what--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --you've seen, we're close to fifteen-thousand--

LANE: Oh, yes.

BIRD: --in dual credit.

LANE: Yeah.

BIRD: And, and, you know, we're playing a role behind the scenes with the task force, I've hired Jobs for the Future to do some major studies, and to do research for the task force we paid for, out of our Ford--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --Foundation grant, and then, uh, we're cur-, we're currently doing a study now, which is just not evident on the, on the institutional level, what are best practices, so, you know--

LANE: Hmm, well that's important.

BIRD: --a-, again, because I, I brought a lot of contact in, with some national organizations, like Jobs for the Future, of the--

LANE: Yes.

BIRD: --that I had worked with extensively out of Boston, uh, because they were, they were in the process of, of really, essentially reconverting our entire program up there, and particularly around the school-work.

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: And, uh, so that's, you know, where I worked very closely with the, the, the New Hampshire Department of Education, even testifying to the board--although I had found out I was given what I was going to say 32:00when I went in to speak to the board, and I said, "This is, this is, this is not what we're doing." But I was told to say school-work was a vocational program--

LANE: Oh.

BIRD: --for those meetings.

LANE: (laughs) Uh--

BIRD: Yeah. It's just interesting what you do, because you're dealing--

LANE: It is.

BIRD: --with a very conservative school board.

LANE: Very much so.

BIRD: You know, at, at the state level, so--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --but I had, I had a chance, you know, again to work very closely with them, uh, and, you know, some of the top consultants, in fact, it was funny, New Hampshire was actually one of the few, we were actually part of the Southern Manufacturing Competitiveness, the TA3 Alliances with Stu Rosenfeld who has deep Kentucky ties.

LANE: Oh.

BIRD: Um, and, and, uh, so I had worked with Brian Bosworth, who was a partner of Stu, during all that, that time, and, uh, and then, when I came down here, I had a chance to interface directly with Stu so, I do, Stu is doing a lot of our international work with our TA3 Alliance, so--

LANE: Well, during all of that time, Dr. Bird, uh, be-, pre-1997, let's 33:00say, when Paul Patton gave his inaugural speech--

BIRD: Right.

LANE: --his famous speech,'95, and then up until the time when you talked with Mike McCall and came to Kentucky, what were you hearing about this post-secondary--

BIRD: O-, the only--

LANE: --improvement act.

BIRD: --the only thing that I, again reading, reading broad literature was, that Kentucky was going through this, and that it was extremely controversial--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --and it was extremely iffy.

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: And--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --to be frank, when I met with Mike McCall, um, I, and we used this phrase for some time, is, he made me no guarantees about the future--

LANE: Hmm.

BIRD: --about job title, or function, or anything--

LANE: Hmm.

BIRD: --and in fact, he said, "We have a good chance that Paul Patton will be re-elected, first governor who can do it." But he, he characterized it as high risk--

LANE: Hmm.

34:00

BIRD: --and high rewards.

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: And, and, and the opportunity for me, you know, having, because I've, I've always been a, I've always been a builder, I've always--

LANE: Right.

BIRD: --been given these new projects, and--

LANE: Right.

BIRD: --when, you know, after three years as a faculty member, and, uh, you know, the university, I was at the University of Bridgeport then, they were doing a national search for a director of continuing education, and they--because I had done all these innovative things out there--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --courses like history in film, I taught courses on technology forecasting and futurism, and people thought, and that course was fantastic, I brought people in from, uh, MIT to do artificial intelligence--

LANE: Hmm.

BIRD: --I had, you know, I did a program with a National Endowments-- Endowment, uh, on, uh, the Holocaust, you know--

LANE: Hmm.

BIRD: --for my -----------(??). I just, I did a lot of things. I ran the university's honors program, which had been moribund so, I, I was seen as being very creative and--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --innovative, I did a course with the journalism and cinema 35:00department, and so they asked me to take this job for a year. Now what they saw was that, eventually they were not going to, they were doing away with requirements in history, so I was going, I was on a tenure track--I was going to be out of a job. I didn't see it, I debated taking this administrative job and actually, uh, then very much enjoyed it, and eventually had a statewide role, both as president of the state association for continuing education in a time of transition, when we were transitioning from the old generation of primarily men to, you know, a group of men and women coming into leadership positions in, in--

LANE: Hmm.

BIRD: --continuing education, slash work-force.

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: Uh, and moving away from the old veterans and attending courses part-time to this whole new women coming back--

LANE: --coming back--

BIRD: --it was just, it was absolutely amazing transformations that was occurring in the, uh, Northeast and in the universities, uh, and so, you know, having a chance to do that job, uh, are things that I think 36:00if you talked about background for, for--

LANE: Well--

BIRD: --for--

LANE: --it sounds tailor-made--

BIRD: --for--

LANE: --for what we are doing.

BIRD: --well for, for curriculum, and--

LANE: -----------(??).

BIRD: --and, uh, and then, when I got to the deputy commissioner, you know, we were looking to move to--again this performance-base system--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --um, that really focused on students' ability, you know, breaking up the courses, ability to master something and then move on--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --and, and, and we spent a lot of time working on, you know, that, Deming in 1980, uh, I worked to set up a statewide, uh, uh, New Hampshire Productivity Center, to focus on quality improvement, you know, a la Deming, and which is essentially what we now know as lean manufacturing--

LANE: --lean manufacturing--

BIRD: --and lean service, and I also had the chance there, uh, to work with all these, you know, major companies. So, I mean, uh, with my background, it was fun doing--I did an apprenticeship training for, uh, 37:00for Electric Boat--

LANE: Huh.

BIRD: --uh, and uh, and we wind up in Groton, uh, into, uh, see, you know, build submarines--

LANE: Wow.

BIRD: --uh, uh, Los Angeles attack submarines, and, and, uh, Ohio class ballistic missiles, went to--

LANE: --that's fascinating--

BIRD: --launches there, worked for AVCO Lycoming, I'm doing training for them. They did the main battle engine for the M-16 amphibious tank, and then, uh, the --------(??) program I did with Sikorsky, where, uh, they asked me to do a course, graduate course in engineering and rotorcraft design and I said, "Uh, gee, I don't think I have any faculty. I'll, I'll, I'll be glad to look." They said, "Well, don't bother, we have a professor at Princeton, there is only eight people in the world that are rotorcraft--

LANE: Hmm.

BIRD: --you know, design--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --and theory, and--

LANE: Wow.

BIRD: --and four of them are in the Soviet Union, so, uh, so, and Pat Curtiss, I believe is his name, from Princeton. And so, I said, "Well, 38:00can I pay him enough?" And they said, "You pay him, you know, you, what you do staff members and we'll supplement his pay."

LANE: Hmm.

BIRD: And so I did, you know, I, I've been around all the prototype--

LANE: Oh.

BIRD: --of the Blackhawk helicopters--

LANE: Oh my gosh.

BIRD: --said I could just go on with--

LANE: Yeah.

BIRD: --the fact, because the, we, in, in Southern, uh, Connecticut, Fairfield County, plus New York, you know, I had thirty-five Fortune 500 companies so, I worked--

LANE: Oh.

BIRD: --IBM, Xerox, uh, uh, you know, you, you name it, it was just a tremendous opportunity and I also had a chance there--I reported to about eight different people, and eight different functions when I was at the university--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --because they didn't really know what to do with me.

LANE: (laughs) Right.

BIRD: The best relationship and I've always told this to Tim Burcham, was when I reported to the vice president for advancement and development--

LANE: Hmm.

BIRD: --because we worked back and forth between, I got exposed to companies--

39:00

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --and introduced--

LANE: Right.

BIRD: --uh, you know, by virtue of that relationship, I thought that was a very positive. And then, I got involved in the ne-, one of the country's first enrollment management divisions, and worked for someone who had been a protege of John Silber at Boston University.

LANE: Hmm.

BIRD: Um--

LANE: Wow.

BIRD: --and, uh, whom I commonly refer to as my SOB boss. (Lane laughs) But I learned a lot from him.

LANE: Yeah.

BIRD: And--

LANE: You did.

BIRD: --actually, before I left, uh, before he came on board we formed this enrollment management division, I came very close to being head of all admissions at--

LANE: Hmm.

BIRD: --the university. Don't ask me how--

LANE: Hmm.

BIRD: --I would have been crazy to take it--

LANE: Hmm.

BIRD: --uh, considering all that happened, but, it just, it was a--

LANE: It's amazing how--

BIRD: --it was a very fluid--

LANE: --but you were always willing to look at new opportunities.

BIRD: --look at new, yeah, look at new opportunities--

LANE: Right.

BIRD: --and then--

LANE: And you're creative, as you say, and, and you were a builder.

BIRD: Well, I also did the long-range planning--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --on the environmental forecast for the University of Bridgeport in 1978, and I--because of my relationship, I worked so much, so well 40:00with all the different colleges, the community college, the private colleges--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --uh, and Fairfield County did not have a public university at the time. It had a small branch operation with the University of Connecticut, and so as I did that, and my environmental scan, I found a phenomenon I'd never forgotten, and that is everybody was counting on the same student to increase enrollment.

LANE: Hmm.

BIRD: And of course, the history of the University of Bridgeport by 1991, they had a lot of faculty issues, they had a faculty strike, long story from that, the bottom line is that they were located on Long Island Sound, a beautiful campus, but you had to go through Bridgeport down to, you know, Bridgeport to get there, and you had to go through several, uh, uh, villages. I mean, I saw--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --West Side Story played out when I lived on campus, you know--

LANE: Wow.

BIRD: --it was, and so, you know, it was, it--Sacred Heart University, which was on the opposite end up, right on the suburbs of the Merritt 41:00Parkway, Sacred Heart University, well, Sacred Heart College, it's now Sacred Heart University. They have a football team, they have this all which UB had, so, I saw these tremendous shifts, I also saw the fact, I learned with an institution, actually it's hard, but an institution can destroy itself--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --in that, and they've bounced back, they're accredited by New England, but, uh, ----------(??)--

LANE: With your background, uh, you, you spoke of your background in accreditation--that just came through all of these new colleges' programs you, you constantly had to be thinking about accreditation.

BIRD: Well, accreditation, um, my involvement there was basically, uh, selected, they got trained--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --and then went out and, and, and I did, I, I, I had the reputation, I got every case that turned disaster--

LANE: Hmm.

BIRD: --you know, I had a, after one of the colleges we visited in Boston, they were put on probation by the New--

42:00

LANE: Right.

BIRD: --England Association--

LANE: Right.

BIRD: They sent me to another college as part of a team, and that turned out that at night, you arrived there, there had been a major editorial against the colleges', uh, practices--

LANE: Hmm.

BIRD: --in the Boston Globe--

LANE: Hmm.

BIRD: --happening for a really nice--

LANE: You were a crisis manager.

BIRD: --nice -----------(??) dinner, and I would say, they kept trying to give me easy ones--(Lane laughs)--you know, and I did, actually one of the fun ones I did, the first one I really did was the, uh, the, uh, the Community College of Vermont, which at that time was on probation and, uh, but it was done by people who didn't understand non-traditional education--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --and adult education as it was a--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --it was a community college without walls, and so we, we, it was a, that was a wonderful opportunity. So, uh, and there is a lot of others about accreditation I could say, but I, I'd chaired teams, my most fun one was, I chaired the, uh Culinary Institute--

LANE: Oh.

BIRD: --in Switzerland--

LANE: Oh wow.

BIRD: --ten days of hell in Switzerland, having to accredit a--

43:00

LANE: Was the food any good?

BIRD: Oh, it was, you know, well, the final exam at one of the institutions that I was visiting--I wasn't accrediting them, but it was a five-course meal--

LANE: Wow.

BIRD: --and, uh, superb. In Geneva, our host was, uh, and we weren't accrediting, our host was, uh, had a number of, uh, schools, plus he had the school for all the ambassadors, uh, sons and daughters ranging--

LANE: Wow.

BIRD: --you know, from elementary school--

LANE: Right.

BIRD: --to high school--

LANE: Right.

BIRD: --and so, you know, so--

LANE: That's something I would love, that, this is an aside, but I'm a foodie and a home, old home ec major by, by profession, and, uh, I think the culinary schools are really, really just the wave of the future, and I know we have some strong ones within our system, we have Sullivan, but, uh, uh, that's something I'd love to see us really ramp up, I'd say--

BIRD: Well--

LANE: --it's vital.

BIRD: --there is such a need for it, in fact, my, uh, Nancy's nephew wandered around four-year universities, and back several years ago, uh, 44:00uh, he went to Southeast Seattle and graduated there. He is now, uh, you know, working in one of a Seattle's finest restaurants and just a tremendous success--

LANE: Yeah.

BIRD: --story, and--

LANE: Yeah.

BIRD: --it's, it's--

LANE: And--

BIRD: --it's a kind of success story, you know, again, the problem with community colleges for so many years, we relied on anecdotal as opposed to the culture of evidence--

LANE: Right.

BIRD: --and so we've, you know, that's our big, our big--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --our big challenge, and I think that's what, when we finish consolidation, and I'm jumping ahead here--

LANE: That's fine.

BIRD: --but just, just to say, I think it's important, particularly, you know, the last couple of years, you know, it, you know, when we finished consolidation, which in some ways, we, we're still dealing with those issues--

LANE: Right.

BIRD: --I don't mean--

LANE: Right.

BIRD: --to say that--

LANE: Right.

BIRD: --particularly, Bluegrass--

LANE: -----------(??).

BIRD: --uh, but, uh, you know, looking to where we go now, we got all these new people, and, and I th-, I sort of find myself, the new people saying, "Well, my gosh, you know, how come this wasn't developed?" or, 45:00"How come you don't have this?"

LANE: Um-hm. Um-hm.

BIRD: And, you know, the thing Mike and I often talk about is the fact that this sort of history's been gone. I mean, I still remember dealing with Ken Walker at CPE, and I loved it the first day I walked in to meet with him, and we had a discussion about the fact that he didn't understand these credit hours because the, the technical schools in this state, had essentially created an artificial or an ersatz, uh, associate degree their, their, their diploma was really--had become a two, two-and-a-half year program, I mean, it was an absolute, at a cost to the student, you know, they weren't--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --they should have been one-year programs.

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: Uh, but they had created those, so when they, to translate things into credit hours, you get into issues like faculty workload--

LANE: Sure you do.

BIRD: --homework, and, and they were coming in the program saying, well our program is two hundred and thirty hours, credit hour, uh, excuse me, you can't have, I mean a baccalaureate program is about 122--(Lane 46:00laughs)--a 129, and--

LANE: And they were state employees.

BIRD: Right.

LANE: Facul-, faculty, community college faculty, and then on the other hand, you had state employees who worked from eight to 4:30 and that sort of thing, so.

BIRD: Yeah, and, and we had problems, and Mike and I still couldn't believe that we didn't have a lot of night schools--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --and we got some employment practices--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --that really caused--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --issues on making it almost cost prohibitive to have your own faculty teach a day, and then teaching in the evening, because, you know, dual employment, we found out--

LANE: Exactly.

BIRD: --sort of thing, so, you know, the work we did, uh, at the same time, you know, and, uh my, my, you know, colleague in this was Joan Lucas--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --because she and I developed, uh, again a parallel structure--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --with the technical colleges to create a technical college senate.

LANE: Right.

BIRD: But we designed it so that it contained components, and we merged them, we hoped it would get the best--

LANE: That's right.

BIRD: --of all possible worlds.

LANE: Right.

BIRD: And we did, we did, and we didn't, and then, of course we had something else that developed with SACS, that just changed things in the last two years, but, that senate process really created a lot of 47:00important communication, because I dealt a lot, it gave me a focal point to communicate with all the colleges.

LANE: I bet.

BIRD: So it was very valuable, then of course, you know, Joan, uh, and I worked so much on policies, administrative policies--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --you know, and to be determined, things that the early board had done, uh, that, you know--

LANE: Yeah.

BIRD: --that, that in itself, you know, and I think, I think we finished our last to be determined. Now we're going back over and this, we change language, and then, you know, the other thing that we continue to find was things like, uh, fire rescue--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --we have the state fire rescue.

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: The Fire Commission was under the fire marshal two months after I was here, they marched into my office and said they were leaving and going and being transferred to another organization, and I said, "Wait a minute, you know, I just got here, Mike McCall just got here, what did KCTCS, you know, ever do to you?"

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: And they showed me a document where my predecessor had said he 48:00wanted the state fire rescue training off of the technical college campuses by July 1st--

LANE: My goodness.

BIRD: --of 2000.

LANE: My goodness.

BIRD: And I said, "Well, I don't agree with that," and Mike and I got to work, so anyway--

LANE: Sure.

BIRD: --and that--

LANE: And they're here.

BIRD: --that--

LANE: They're still here.

BIRD: --they're here, and then, you know, back then, now jump ahead two years, I came to Mike McCall, and I said, "You know, Mike, I, I found another kind of thing we have, uh," I was vaguely aware of, because it was a position with added responsibility when that person, uh, retired, and that is this, what they call this adult agriculture program--

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: --we had some, I, sixteen to nineteen people, who worked supporting farmers directly, I said, "Mike, you know, we have our own co-op extension in KCTCS." And I will tell you, as of this moment, they still aren't totally integrated, but certainly far more integrated than they were before.

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: And we changed the name of the, of the program, but, you know, it's like we had the colleges to focus on, and then we had things like 49:00the Fire Commission--

LANE: Right.

BIRD: --and this other, uh, which, by the way, when we didn't move fast enough to hire a replacement, you know, Mike started getting calls from certain senators because that agricultural program.

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: And I think it's something we should take pride of and stuff like that, but there is, you know, they said two things, you never should watch being made, legislation and, and, uh, sausage, and, you know, it's like--

LANE: (laughs) They're both messy.

BIRD: --it's, it's, it's like, you know--

LANE: --both messy--

BIRD: --go look at Art Craig's office.

LANE: Yeah.

BIRD: Uh, Art Craig the, the veterans approval office for all programs, uh, for which veterans can use their, their military, uh, educational benefits, is out of KCTCS.

LANE: Um-hm.

BIRD: It shouldn't be KCTCS, it should be in the CPE or--

LANE: Um-hm, um-hm.

BIRD: --someplace else, so, um--

LANE: You're still working on, on refining.

BIRD: On refined, you know, and they--

LANE: If you would indulge me, I would like to read, if I, if you have 50:00time--

BIRD: Sure. [door opening sound]

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Would you bring -----------(??)---------- out there?

BIRD: I need to go now.

LANE: Okay, okay. We can do this next time.

BIRD: Yeah.

LANE: Let's just stop here.

BIRD: What, what did you say Margaret?

LANE: I was just going to define, according to your resume, your position here at KCTCS, and let you correct that for me, because it may be out of date. As chancellor, and, and I'm being very important, very precise in our, uh, uh, history to define--

BIRD: Right.

LANE: --things, to start at the 101, if you will, but as chancellor here, for this system of sixteen colleges with sixty-five campuses, you are responsible for system-wide direction of academic, student and economic development work-force initiatives, research and policy analysis, global studies, grants and contracts, statewide fire and rescue training, and homeland security.

BIRD: Well, we've added KBEMS to that.

51:00

LANE: KBEMS.

BIRD: And we've, actually you ought to talk, you ought to see the list of, of, of, people in my office, like the adult agricultural program--

LANE: Okay, I will do that.

BIRD: --and, and see the other thing, of course, you know we've reshuffled some of these things.

LANE: I know you have.

BIRD: Because, you know, and that, that, that, that's been kind of hard for me personally and professionally, because, you know, I lost Jamie Justice's Technology Solutions--

LANE: Yeah.

BIRD: --well visualization's--

LANE: Oh yeah.

BIRD: --my baby.

LANE: I know it is.

BIRD: You know, and, and--

LANE: Oh, Jamie is over there now?

BIRD: Yeah.

LANE: Oh, that's right, I see him.

BIRD: --yeah, and I, I raised, you know, I mean that was something that I identified Jamie -----------(??)--

LANE: Sure, sure, we'll turn this off.

[End of interview.]

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