0:00

SMITH: This is Kim Lady Smith and today is June 11, 2008. I'm at the home of Edward Teater in Nicholasville, KY. This is our second interview for the Horse Industry in Kentucky Oral History Project at UK. All right, Mr. Teater, um, when we ended our last interview we were talking about North Ridge, but prior to that, we um, talked about- -you had worked for your dad for twelve years and then you left and went to Rock Creek. Tell me why you went to Rock Creek?

TEATER: Well, I'll tell you a little story about that first.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: Uh, we were at Chi-, Chicago International, my, my dad and I were, showing at the International Horse Show up there. And uh, I had, I--we'd been up there, and we were of course staying at the old Stockyard Inns there, you know, and, and as I said, I had been there 1:00about eleven or twelve years at that time and I got a call from the president of Rock Creek Riding Club. And this was late fall in the year of course, you know--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: -- the International usually was in Thanksgiving--

SMITH: --hmm--

TEATER: --right after Thanksgiving. And uh, wanted me to take over--Jim B. Robertson was leaving Rock Creek and wanted me to take over. So uh, I said I'd think about it, and he said, "Well, we have to have an answer pretty quick" and everything and I said--and he'd already looked my schedule up and uh, uh, and knew when I had a day off, you know, when I wasn't showing. And he said, "Well, you could come down such 2:00and such a day and just spend the day, and, and, and there's a flight down at such and such a time flight back, and you wouldn't miss any of the show or you wouldn't miss any of your commitments." And his name was Mr. Douglas and I said, "Well," I said, "I might do that," and he said, "Well, I'll make your, your ticket arrangements," and said, so I said, "Okay." And so that night uh, I got to show uh, my dad was letting me show some horses at that time out of the stable and uh, I showed Lover's Sensation. And she was showing in fine harness at the time, and uh, she later turned out to be the Three-Gaited World's Champion and also the Amateur Three-Gaited World's Champion. But, anyways, uh, so I had decided that I would take the day off and I went and talked 3:00to my father and I said, " This man called me from Rock Creek," and I said, "It's, it's kinda interesting to me and I'd like to go down and look at it if that's all right." And I told him what I was going to do, I'd be down there for the day. So, I flew down there that morning and met all the, the people at the club, the different directors and things and we visited and talked and what the deal would be and things like that. So, I uh, uh, walked out in the barn after the meeting and golly, Jim B. had that thing just full of horses, just full! There was, there was probably forty some stalls in the, in the main barn and then there was a, a little ten stall barn behind it was full of horses, and then there was a great big barn behind it that they called the kinda the 'Pleasure Horse Barn' and he must've had forty horses in that, you 4:00know. And I was figuring all this you know, and sounded like a pretty good deal, you know. And uh, I'd never really been out on my own--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --before. So, I went back to Chicago and, and finished up the show there and, and I talked to my dad and I said, "I think I'm gonna take this job." And uh, you really, you just went in business for yourself when you went there. You weren't--

SMITH: --um--

TEATER: -- you didn't get paid by them or anything like that you just, you opened up a public stable is what you did. So uh, my dad said, "Well, if you're sure that's what you want to do," he said, "go ahead and do it," you know. And he gave me his blessing about, you know, going on, you know, it was time for me to do it.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: And uh, so anyways we, we got back home from Chicago and shipped 5:00back to Lexington and everything and, and I had plenty of time 'cause I wasn't going to go there 'til the first of the year, see, so that gave me a, a month to kinda get ready. So, I don't know, a couple of weeks went by and I thought, you know, 'I think I'll go back down there and look that place over' and ---------(??) so I drove down to Louisville and I drove in, there was nobody there. I couldn't find anybody, you know, I thought there'd be a few people around there. And, oh, I walked through this barn and there was two horses in the main barn. That was it. 'Cause Jim, Jim Robertson had moved to his new facility, see. That other barn, the big, the other ten stall barn, it was empty. The, the big 'Pleasure Horse' barn had about seven horses in it--

6:00

SMITH: --oh my--

TEATER: --and that was it. So, I got--and it was a long drive back to Lexington. I got to thinking, well, 'What am I gonna do?' I just didn't think about that part of it when I hired and, and 'course not ever being in the public business--

SMITH: --yeah--

TEATER: --uh, I really didn't even know how to talk to get to people to get horses to train and to deal in and things like that, and customers were, were, all the customers were gone with Jim B. They, every, everybody went with Jim B. but this uh, one lady who was Mrs. Denham--

SMITH: --okay--

TEATER: -- and her two daughters and they had two little, they had a little pony and a, and a little kind of a three-gaited pleasure horse of some kind, you know, not much stock.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: So uh, it was kind of a lonesome feeling and so I started getting 7:00on the phone and people--and then a notice got out in uh, one of our trade magazines that I was gonna--Jim B. had, had moved and I was gonna be the new trainer there and things like that. And uh, I don't know, a couple of weeks went by and nothing happened, you know, and I was, and I don't know, I was uh, it was, oh, about, I guess it was around Christmas time a fellow called me and he had three horses. And uh, he was supposed to be very bad pay, and I thought, 'I don't want anybody like that', you know, and so I was very upfront with him, and I said uh, "You know, I've heard that you're very bad pay," and I said uh, "I'm just starting out," and I said, "I really can't carry anybody right now." And I said, "I, I just couldn't take your horses", I said, 8:00"I'd like to but," I said, "I'm not in the position to carry uh, uh, three or four horses that you've got." "Well," he said, "How about if I pay you upfront?" and I said, "Well, that sounds all right to me but", I said, "You'd have to pay every month upfront." Which he did, and you know, he was a, his, his name was John Waits and he was a--

SMITH: --Wades?

TEATER: Uh--

SMITH: -- W-A-D-E-S? [editor's note: confirmed later as Waits]

TEATER: He had, he was in the uh, development business--

SMITH: --okay--

TEATER: --in Lexington things. And he turned out to be just a, a really good customer, --(laughs)-- after I almost turned him down, you know. Uh, so that was how I got started at Rock Creek. And uh, I had a lady there, uh, course I went there and I had those two horses and the three that Mr. Waits sent me, but the club was, has always been very 9:00successful, you know.

SMITH: Hmm.

TEATER: And all the members, which uh, were interested in horses--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: -- and they knew people that were, maybe might be interested in horses, you know and so, so when you went, they had a party every so often, you know and you'd meet different people and it just kinda just evolved, you know. It started all over again.

SMITH: Hmm.

TEATER: Of course, Helen and Charlie Crabtree and Redd were there for a long time and they were very successful and Jim B. was there for a long time and he was very successful and I was just hoping that, you know--

SMITH: --um--

TEATER: -- that things would open up for me. And uh, I had a, a lady that had been in Louisville for many years that gave lessons. And uh, 10:00it was mandatory, that was the only deal that you had that where the club said that you have to give lessons in the afternoon. (coughs)

SMITH: Did they pay you to give the lessons?

TEATER: No--

SMITH: --did the club--

TEATER: --no. That, that was something that they just required.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: Anybody that took that over had to give lessons. You know beginner lessons--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --to children and things and what, what they did, they had a deal where that uh, you could bring your child, you didn't have to be a member, but after you had, I think it was five lessons, you either had to become a member or you couldn't take lessons anymore. And the membership was nominal.

SMITH: Hmm.

TEATER: It kinda paid the bills for--it wasn't a big deal to, to be a member, I mean, expensive deal.

11:00

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And, but they wanted your interest in horses, you know. And they kinda promoted me, or whoever the trainer was, they promoted you pretty good--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: -- you know? So it was a good deal. And uh, uh, so this lady was, her name was Jane Fleming, just a wonderful person and uh, she was older than I was uh, very established in her thinking about horse business and things like that, strictly gave lessons. She did no training or anything like that and, so anyways, she gave lessons there for about a year for me. And it didn't seem like I, you know, I didn't have a lot to do at that time. I had about, well, I'd built my stable 12:00up to about eighteen--twenty horses and, which was very good and I was very happy how it was going, people were buying a few horses. And uh, and then, you know, I started getting where that, I, I started really getting some nice horses and uh, got where I could be competitive--

SMITH: --um--

TEATER: --showing. And uh, I had some real nice riders and I started getting some real nice customers that uh, had children that wanted to ride and they wanted to do well so it all kinda---------(??)

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: Funny story about Jane, I'll tell you right now then I'll--

SMITH: --okay--

TEATER: --try to get to the rest of it.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: Uh, she was uh, just the nicest lady in the world but I thought- -and she'd just come at one o'clock--

SMITH: --okay--

TEATER: --and, but she'd usually come a little early and she's always 13:00play Solitaire, you know, cards. We had a big lounge there and she'd wait for the children, would mostly be in the late afternoon, you know. But she'd have a lesson at one and then one thirty and two, and, and you know, I thought, you know, 'Jane's, Jane's really not doing that much and I'm paying her and, you know I could do those lessons.' And these little bitty kids like this, you know. I never had given any lessons to little bitty kids. --(laughs)-- So, you know, just starting.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: So I, I called Jane in and I said, "Jane," I said, "I just, I'm gonna have to let you go." And I said uh, "I'm, I'm not very busy and I just, I think I can do this." And she was just as nice and smiled and said, "Well that's, I think that's great." And you know we left on great terms and so I start giving these lessons in the afternoons and 14:00I'd tell these little kids what to do and I'd get mad and I'd say I don't have--just a little bitty kid. And I'd say, "I can't get mad at this little kid" you know. But this one kid, I knew she knew how to do more than what she would do.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And I got so mad I took my hat off and I jumped up and down on it. I was so mad at this little kid because she wouldn't do what I thought that she should do. And so they left and the mother was a little bit huffy with me, and so I went into the office and sat down, and I said, "You know what? I don't think I'm meant for that."--(both laugh)-- So I called Jane on the telephone and I said uh, "Jane," I said uh, "This is Ed Teater calling." "Well, hi Ed. How are ya?" I said, "Not very good," I said, "I can't do what you were doing." And 15:00I said I'm, I, I said, "I'm kinda starting out public, you know and, and different things I haven't ever been around really." And I said uh, "I'd really like for you to come back if you could." She said, "When do you want me?" And I said, "Tomorrow, if you can come." --(both laugh)-- And she said, "Okay, I'll be there." We never said a word about it anymore. She wasn't gone but about two or three weeks I don't think. --(laughs)--

SMITH: You learned your lesson, huh? --(laughs)-

TEATER: I learned my lesson --------(??) well. But then after that we started getting some really nice horses. And uh, we had uh, there was a fellow and his wife uh, Mr. and Mrs. Denham was their names.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And uh, they were from Louisville. He had a big cookie business there, Mother's Cookies--

SMITH: --um--

TEATER: --there and in Boston and things. And they were very wealthy 16:00people--had two uh, outstanding riders, daughters that uh, very intelligent. Uh, you could, whatever you told them they kinda remembered, you know, to do. And uh, we bought a couple of horses--two walk-trot horses, just real fast after, not long after I was there. Maybe four or five months after I was there bought the two nice walk- trot horses. And then uh, there was a, a family that had horses with Jim B. Robertson, and uh, they were called Dulworth's--

SMITH: --um--

TEATER: --and uh, his family became just great friends of mine. Uh, he passed away and uh, but they were great backers for me, you know. I 17:00mean, they wanted to see, they wanted to see me do well and uh, he had three daughters. And two of them started riding with me, and one had a horse with Jim B. for about a year while I was still there, which was fine, you know. Because he, Jim B. had been good for them--

SMITH: --yeah--

TEATER: --they had done well with him. But they kinda liked the idea of being able to just come right back. They liked the club, you know.

SMITH: Right.

TEATER: So they came back in and, and uh, I had, oh, probably four or five horses for them, and really some nice horses. I had Aletha Stonewall uh, which was Re-, Reserve World's Champion but uh, had won just about every place else we ever showed her--Lexington uh, um, all over the country, you know.

SMITH: What was her name again?

TEATER: Aletha Stonewall--

18:00

SMITH: Aletha, okay.

TEATER: And Jane uh, uh, Dulworth rode Aletha Stonewall. And uh, then Joan, the youngest daughter, she had a gaited pony called Another Trouble, that was uh, very good. And the oldest girl uh, she had uh, Sparkling Choice, a really nice horse that, that won the World's Championship at the Louisville, and showed, we showed him very successfully--[telephone rings]-- and then resold him, or sold him. We bought that horse from my father.

SMITH: Oh, okay.

TEATER: And uh, uh, and my father had that operation on his throat, you know, for cancer--

SMITH: --oh--

TEATER: --and uh, he didn't know what the situation was that he was 19:00gonna be in after the operations and things and, and he knew that I was in a place where that a, a, a real good broke horse that could do five gaits would you know, that I would, might need a horse like that. So, he kinda gave me the first choice on him. And uh, really at the time, I didn't have anybody to buy him because Mr. Dulworth had given me an order for uh, to buy a horse for five thousand dollars. And I had looked and looked, and he'd call me every other night. "Have you found anything yet?" "No I hadn't found anything that I had really like," you know.

SMITH: Um.

TEATER: So my Dad called me that one night and told me about this horse and I said, "Well, what have you got to have for this horse?" And he said, "Twenty-five thousand." And I said, "Well, I don't have anybody," you know that would spend, spend--this was back 19, whatever it was, 60.

SMITH: 1960s.

TEATER: '66--

20:00

SMITH: --oh--

TEATER: --you know. And twenty-five thousand dollars was a, was a top price.

SMITH: Absolutely.

TEATER: And uh, uh I said, "I just don't have anybody," and I said, "You just go ahead and." Well, I hung up from my father from talking on the telephone and Mr. Dulworth called me. And he said, "Have you found my daughter a horse yet?" And I said, "Mr. Dulworth, I just can't find one that I like," you know, I said, "I've been looking but I can't find anything." And uh, and we talked a little bit and I got ready to hang up and I said, "Now, Mr. Dulworth," I said uh, "I want you to know that there is a horse for sale and uh, but he's more money." "Well what do you mean?" And so I told him about my dad, just got through, I just got off the phone with him and this horse is for sale, and uh, uh, he priced that horse to me first thinking I could use him, you know. Well he said uh, "Can we go look at him?" And I said, "Yeah, we can." 21:00(laughs) So we went down and bought the horse just for--and 'course I'd been trying for two months to find a five thousand dollar horse for him, and I couldn't find a five thousand dollar horse I liked that he thought that he wanted, you know. So just things like that just kinda kept rolling and--

SMITH: --was that Stonewall that he bought?

TEATER: Pardon me?

SMITH: Was the horse Stonewall? Is that the name of the horse?

TEATER: No, it was uh, Sparkling Choice.

SMITH: Sparkling Choice, okay, sorry.

TEATER: Yeah. And uh, and then uh, Mr. Denham, he started buying, he bought a pony I won the World's Championship with. And then uh, I had a customer named uh, Wood Hardin uh, and his daughter and, had quite a few horses with me--had five or six horses, all nice show horses. Uh, Vanity's Love was a Worlds Champion and uh, we had a pony that was a 22:00Worlds Champion--I can't think of her name right now--cutest pony I ever had. Uh, and you know, it, it, and the cus-, and then I 'course had one customer uh, that came to me from Texas.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And uh, a fellow named Mr. McNeese. And he sent uh, a mare to me that he had bought from Redd Crabtree, and uh, he, he turned out to be one of the best customers I ever had. And uh, I never saw him, but--for many years I wouldn't see him but maybe once or twice a year. And uh, we got where that uh, we would buy three or four colts at a 23:00time and then if one turned out, he want to keep it, show it--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --rest of them, get rid of them. And uh, he was just a, a prince of a man, just the most wonderful man I believe I've ever known. Uh, there's, there's quite a bit of story behind this fellow, but uh, he was a banker from uh, Houston.

SMITH: Um.

TEATER: He was an international banker. Very smart and uh, I had quite a few horses for him. Like you know, I might have had at times up to twenty head of horses for him. And stallions and broodmares and yearlings and--

SMITH: --um--

TEATER: -- you know, training horses, and everything. And he was always so busy he couldn't come to the show. -------------(??) I'd have a real nice horse. And I'd say, "-------(??) you've gotta come see this 24:00horse." "Well, Ed," said, "You just take her and show her," and said, you know, "Let me know how she does." Well, so I, you know, I kinda took him at his word, you know. Which, you know, usually if I was going to uh, Kansas City, I'd tell him, , "I'm going to Kansas City and I'm gonna take two of your horses to Kansas City," and, you know, "take two of your horses to Devon, Pennsylvania."

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: You know you kinda, all your customers you do the same way. So, I'd been showing a whole lot one year. We, we were making about eighteen shows a year at that time and plus, some one night shows and things like that. And went to New, Madison Square Garden to show. And after I got through showing, I won the Gaited Mare Stake up there with a mare that Mr. McNeese owned. And I was oh, I slapped my head and 25:00I said, "I forgot to tell him I was showing at New York!" you know. Well, New York is very expensive, you know--

SMITH: --yeah--

TEATER: --stalls are expensive, shipping's expensive. All the expenses just go up when you go to Madison Square Garden in the middle of New York City, you know.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: So I was just, I said, I just, "I've got to call him and just lay it on the line that I brought these horses up here and." Took two of his horses. (laughs) So, the next morning--which he very seldom- -didn't want to bother you he was such a, a gentleman, you know, he didn't--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --he knew I was busy and he just wouldn't hardly bother you. And he said uh--and the phone rang. Uh, 'won- who, wonder who that could be.' I picked up the phone and he always, always answer when, if it was him, he'd say, "A.G. McNeese here. Uh, may I speak to Mr. Teater?" And, you know that's the way he would--

26:00

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: -- get on the phone. And he said A.G.,--I sunk, I said, "He's gonna just raise hell with me.'" So he said, "Way to go!" And I said, "What's that?" And he said, "I read the paper this morning." And he was in Washington D.C., at a big conference up there of all his banking buddies.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And in the Washington paper it had a, a big article about this man from Houston Texas had the Five-Gaited Champion at, at Madison Square Garden. And he was just thrilled, he said, "Everybody has read this article."(both laugh) So he was just tickled to death that I was in New York showing. Well, I just ---------(??), but anyways, uh, he, 27:00he was almost like a second father.

SMITH: Oh.

TEATER: He was just such a great man. Well, his daughter is a uh, a doctor.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And uh, she was, their, she lives in Houston and Mr. McNeese died and then, Margaret's her name, and she kept horses with me, has kept horses with me ever since he died.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: Every place I've gone, just about.

SMITH: Um.

TEATER: And now, her two daughters have horses with me and now my son takes care of them, see.

SMITH: Ah.

TEATER: So, and oh, we've become very close friends. Uh, the family, I mean.

SMITH: Right.

TEATER: We spend Thanksgiving together and uh, uh, they're just a wonderful family. And you know, I got so many friends that I made at--I had a lot of nice horses, I had some great horses, but I had so many people that still today that I have memories of because they 28:00passed on. But then I know their children, and what they're doing, they're adult children now 'course they're fifty years old and older. And very successful in their own right, in their different businesses and things. Um, the doctors, lawyers, uh, accountants and--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --so, it's--I got a whole lot more out of Rock Creek than just you know, uh, monetary success with the horses, uh--

SMITH: --more than just job--

TEATER: --got a lot of business friends that are real dear friends, you know. And uh, uh, so it was a very successful trip there.

SMITH: Tell me about um, is it Sea of Secrets?

TEATER: Yes.

SMITH: Now who--

TEATER: -- well, I had been looking for a real top horse. And I'd heard 29:00about--I saw this horse show at Louisville and he was uh, he missed his canter lead and they didn't tie him very well. I think they tied him like forth or fifth, and uh, this other fellow had him and so, kind of a, I really, I, I had one person in mind to buy the horse that I thought would buy a horse if it was the kind of horse that I thought it would be, you know. And so I'd been looking around and it was in the spring of the year, the next year after Louisville. And uh, Pep Peppiatt that lives here in Lexington, at the time had a training barn, had Sea of Secrets. And I saw Pep show him at Louisville, and I really liked the horse but he, he did, he just didn't take one lead right away 30:00and the judges criticized him pretty strong for it.

SMITH: Hmm.

TEATER: Uh, other than that, you know, he didn't have any problems at all. And uh, but anyways I went to, uh, uh, made arrangements to look at him, and I, I didn't really have a, a customer that was strong, you know,--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --which I, but I thought I had one customer that I could sell him to, if I really I liked him. So I went over there, and made arrangements to look at him and I looked at him. And, and uh, he came out of the stall, and man he just started kicking! He could kick as high as this ceiling.

SMITH: Hmm.

TEATER: Just at everybody, just -------------(??). They finally got him out the door and stood him up and then they worked him a little bit and I liked him, you know. And uh, he had a quarter crack--

31:00

SMITH: --um--

TEATER: --pretty bad one. But he was sound on it.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And then they'd operated on his hock right here for a stringhalt, and there was a big open gash there, you know where it was healing up.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And for some reason, on the side of his tail he had a place about that big around--hole.

SMITH: Really?

TEATER: Tail just as straight as it could be, but had this hole. And uh, so I went, I said, "I'll let you know," you know. So I went home and got on the telephone and called this one man that I thought might buy him and not interested at all.

SMITH: Hmm.

TEATER: So I said, "Okay". So Mr. Denham, who had all these nice horses for me had Local Talent. Local Talent, I'll tell you about that 32:00in a minute.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: But he had a lot of nice horses for me. And uh, let's see, I've kinda lost my train of thought.

SMITH: Okay, you were telling, you told him about Sea of Secrets.

TEATER: Oh, yeah. So I, I made a call to this one man that I thought would be interested and he was flat out "no.'' So Mr. Denham's two girls uh, that winter had gone to college.

SMITH: Hmm.

TEATER: And he said--great, wonderful man--he call, called me and he said, "Ed, I, I don't want anymore horses, don't call me," you know. ---------(??) anytime I would, I could call him and he'd buy the horse, you know. And, so, I decided uh, they had won the Botar Trophy at Kansas City.

SMITH: Um-hm.

33:00

TEATER: Amateur Three-Gaited Championship, Botar for amateurs. And it's a great big class, very honorable to be able to win it, you know.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: But, if you win it three times you get this beautiful trophy. And so I, I said uh, "Mr. Denham I'm gonna ----------(??) this horse to myself," is what I said. So I got on the phone and I'd, I'd call him, and I say, "Mr. Denham," I said, "I've got a horse that I think that could win the, the big one and be all right." "No! I 'm not interested!" Hung up on me. --(Smith laughs)--

So the next day I, I called where, his office. And the girl answered the phone, the secretary. I said, "This is Ed Teater." And I said, "May I speak to Mr. Denham?" "Yes." Put me right through, you know. And I said, "Mr. Denham, this is an awfully nice horse." I said, "You 34:00know, we've got two legs on that trophy out there at Kansas City." And I said, "We could win that with this horse." And I said, "Not only that now," I said uh, and he hung up on me before I could say anymore. Just hung up. And I thought well maybe he had an emergency, you know. So I called back, and the girl wouldn't let me through. --(Smith laughs)-- So I waited 'til that night and I called him. And he said, "Ed, now, I, I, you know, I'm holding my temper, but I," he said, "I'm losing my temper." And I said, "Mr. Denham" I said, "just listen to me now I'm gonna tell you one more time what I, what I'm thinking about." And then 35:00I said, "Then you, I won't call you again if you'll just listen to me." "All right," he said. I said, "If you'll buy this horse," I said, "not only will you have a nice horse," I said, "he will be undefeated." I said, "He'll win the World's Championship," and I said, "He'll retire that trophy out there, the Botar Trophy." And he says, "Huh, well, I don't know about that. What would I want that for?" And I said, "Now I've sold you probably twenty--twenty-five horses, haven't I?" He said, "Maybe twenty." "Yeah, about twenty." I said, "Have I ever sold you a horse to make money on?" He said, "No." I said, "You'll make money on 36:00this horse." I, I said, "I ever said that before?" And he said, "No." He said uh, "You and Barb,"--Barb's his wife--said "You and Barb go down and look at that horse." And I knew, as soon as he said that, we had the horse, which we bought him. And he won nine straight classes that year, was undefeated. He won the World's Championship, with me riding him, and then Becky his oldest daughter came and showed him at Indianapolis, won both classes there: the Amateur Over Two and the --- ----(??) and then he also won the Botar out at Kansas City. And then we sold him for about twice what we gave for him, all within one year.

SMITH: That's very impressive.

37:00

TEATER: Yeah. But the great part of that was, the kicker to that is that some people down in Florida named Cowans bought him and their little girl showed him. And he was undefeated for so many years, three or four years, never was beat. Showed in all the amateur classes and juvenile classes--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --and things across the United States. And uh, and that same way, well, I was going to tell you about the story of Mr. Denham and Local Talent.

SMITH: Um-hm. Well te-, answer me, before you do that, what made you so sure that horse was going to be special.

TEATER: There was just something I really liked about him. He just had everything it looked like to me. You know, he looked like he was, when he'd go in the ring he'd look like he was just laughing. He'd kinda do his head like this, up and down, just real, just real easy. Go by 38:00horses and he'd look like he was looking at them and you know, just. just had a different way about him than any horse I ever saw.

SMITH: An attitude?

TEATER: His attitude changed, uh--well that was another funny story. Uh, Mr. Denham never came to the barn. Come to the horse show every once in a while. And he was a golfer, liked to golf and I loved to golf, too. Of course at that time, I didn't have time to golf, you know, I was working. And uh, but anyways, I'd just bought that horse--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --and he and his golfing buddies were all over at the club. And I think they'd had a few--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --little cocktails or something, you know. And he called me up and said, "Can I come see the horse?" Said, "I want to bring my buddies over with me to see him." Said, "I've told them all about him." And I said, "I just got him in," you, you know. So I said, "Why certainly," 39:00you know, it was gonna be--he said, "I'll be there, oh, half hour," said, "We're driving right from the club." I said, so I got a couple of boys and they got him all cleaned up and shined up we put a ---- -------(??) bridle on him to lead him out. He didn't want to see him work; he just wanted to see him led out. Well, I'd forgot about how he acted, and he brought two car loads of, of men (laughs), all these golfers, his buddies. They didn't know anything about horses. Well, they were standing up--I told them to get up by the front door there and I'd lead him out. I started leading that son-of-a-buck out, and he started kicking. And he'd kick over that way, and he'd kick over this way, kicking every way. And of course, those men got to whooping and hollering and telling Mr. Denham what a great horse he had. (both laugh) And he was dangerous when he was like that.

40:00

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: But anyways, I finally got him settled down and stood him up and oh, he was just beautiful, you know. Great big--I'd hold my hand straight up and his head was right up there, you know, just--

SMITH: --oh, big horse.

TEATER: Beautiful horse, you know. Eyes and ears and chiseled nose and face was all chiseled. So uh, I put the horse away, and I said, "Now ya'll back up and let me, I don't want to get anybody hurt." Mr. Denham said, "He sure got a lot of energy." I put him back in there. I finally got him back in the stall. And so everybody was, he, everybody was thanking me for getting the horse out and showing them. Mr. Denham, oh, he was just a patting me on the back and thanking me very much and--very appreciative people.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And we got about ready to go out and I got a hold of his arm 41:00and pulled him back and I said, "Mr. Denham," I said, "I'm sorry about that but," I said, "next time that you want to see him like that," I said, "I'll have him broke from doing that." He said, "Broke from what?" I said, "All that kicking." "Oh," he said, "I thought that was good." --(both laugh)-- And oh, he's such a smart horse you know I don't think he'd ever been spanked.

SMITH: Oh.

TEATER: And uh, the next day uh, boys were gonna, I was gonna jog him to a cart, you know.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And I told the boys, I said, "Now uh, don't you lead that horse out of the stall. I'll lead him out of the stall." And I got me a bike whip, that's about a six foot whip.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And I led him out of the stall, didn't let him see that whip at all. I led him out of the stall and he started that. I hit him twice. 42:00I mean, I hit him pretty hard both times and you know he never offered to do that again.

SMITH: Hmm.

TEATER: Never.

SMITH: That's all it took.

TEATER: And Donna and Tom Moore looked at that horse before I did. And they didn't want him on a count that he did, he kicked so bad.

SMITH: Huh.

TEATER: But he never, never tried to kick again after that. And I don't know why somebody hadn't, you know, schooled him just because he could hurt himself, what he was doing.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And kill somebody else. Horse, beast or, or man, you know. And but, I hit him twice and I never had to touch him again.

SMITH: Hmm.

TEATER: Never. I don't hardly remember carrying a whip on him or anything, you know, just everything you wanted him to do, he'd do.

SMITH: Hmm.

TEATER: Had funny characteristics, though. I had a South African boy 43:00taking care of him all the time.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: Well, we learned it the hard way uh, but we, you know how you, when you're grooming them and then you take the halter off to put the bridle on. Well you just couldn't do that with him. Because, he would break, he would think he's loose and then that's when he would act like he was going to kick you--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --and you couldn't catch him. Take you sometimes an hour to catch him. But we found out that if you just take the reins, before you take the halter off, just put them over his neck like that, then take the halter off, he'd never try to get away from you.

SMITH: Hmm.

TEATER: He'd stand there as long as you wanted to and you'd put the bridle on him then. But then the worst thing, we'd shown him several 44:00times before Louisville.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: We showed him in the, in the qualifying class, won the qualifying class. Saturday night of Louisville, 'course I was gonna show him back in the stake--nervous and everything like that. Fred uh, the boy from South Africa, he was nervous and, and so I was, I, you know, you'd kinda time your classes when you're gonna show--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --and there's a lot to it, a lot more than meets the eye and you know, it's, it's all timing, you know. When you do this to the horse, when you take his blanket off, when you take his tail set off, when you let his tail down, when you put the saddle on, it's all timing. When you put the bridle on, you don't want to put it on too early and so it's, it's rehearsed too, you know. So, we get, Saturday night, well, I'm all dressed ready to ride, you know. Standing in front, nervous as 45:00I can be and they're saying uh, you know, like five minutes to--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --you gotta be ready to go. Well, I was wanting the horse to come out of the stall. I looked, turned around, and here stood Fred, this South African boy, and he had the, had the, had the bridle in his hand and I said, he said, "Mr. Teater," said, "I forgot." And he had forgotten to put the, the reins over, and he's standing there in the stall. I didn't have but about five minutes. I said, "Give me that bridle, Fred." And he gave it to me, and you talk about begging, I begged him, I just begged, begged, begged, begged. And I just walked right, I never made a, never stopped, put it right on him.

SMITH: Ah.

TEATER: First time that'd ever--why usually it would be a half hour 46:00before you could catch him.

SMITH: Oh, gee.

TEATER: And uh--

SMITH: --hmm--

TEATER: --so you run into little, all horses have little things like that.

SMITH: Oh, yeah.

TEATER: That uh, that aren't big, that you wouldn't think about and uh, that you live with.

SMITH: They make a difference though in how you train them and how--

TEATER: --yeah, oh yeah, yeah.

SMITH: Now tell me about Local Talent.

TEATER: Oh, she was a great mare ----------(??). Well, Local Talent has a funny story, I'll tell you. She was by a horse called American Dictator. And American Dictator was, was owned by Dodge Stables. And he just wasn't a real good sire.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: Uh, he got one really good, called uh, Dictators Master, gaited 47:00horse, and Local Talent. And that's about it. So, but we'd always have two or three American Dictator foals ever year. Didn't want them, but we had them. So the year that Local Talent was a yearling that coming in to train, there was another filly just exactly like her. Looked, I mean, they both looked alike. All American Dictator's looked alike. Little chestnuts, little pretty ears--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --you know, just, they all looked alike, but they couldn't do anything. --(Smith laughs)-- You know, couldn't step over a corn cob. And uh, so these two come in and we have two stalls left. And we called them the--they were two stalls in the back of the barn, the very end.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: That you just couldn't, for some reason they couldn't fix a 48:00leak. And they, those two stall would leak when it'd rain. So we called them 'leaky roof stalls'. I said, "Put those to filly back there." You know, so you don't have to see them. --(laughs)-- So, which we did. And so I started training her, and uh, this was when I was at Dodge you see.

SMITH: Uh, the first time with your dad still?

TEATER: Yeah, the first time. And uh, uh, so I trained her, you know and at that time we mostly racked everything. You know there was not, my dad didn't believe in such a thing as a three-gaited two year old. --(laughs)-- They had to be gaited first and then they'd get their divisions, you know.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: And of course some of them won't rack, you know, they're not meant to be racking horses. But my dad liked all of them to rack. 49:00Said made their motion better from the trot, you know if they rack which is, some, lot of the old time trainers really believe that. Oh, I tried racking her and there wasn't any rack in her, you know. So that's-- it was spring, early spring and a fellow came by there, great big fellow and he wanted a pair of uh, he wanted a pair of horses that he could ride in the parade classes. But they had to look just alike.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: So, my dad said, "Go get those two fillies back there ready and we'll show them to this man." We did, stood them right up side by 50:00side and they looked just like each other. I think, thousand dollars a piece. So, man looked at them and said, "I really like those." And I thought he was getting ready to buy them, you know. And uh, he said uh, "I really like those and I believe they'll do." And they got to visiting and talking and he said, "I'm gonna come back this afternoon and look at them again if you don't mind, before I take them." Dad said, "All right." So the man did come back and he said, "I, they're just no big enough for me." So we almost sold Local Talent for a thousand dollars. --(laughs)-- But anyways, I racked her and racked her and racked her and I came in, my dad was sitting in the office and I came in and I said, "Dad, I can't rack that mare." And uh, Al Brown 51:00was the other assistant trainer.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And he said, "Let Al have that mare and let him see if he can ride her on the trot a little bit." Well, Al didn't, he didn't have that mare over six weeks, converted her back just trotting her, and she was just unbelievable after six weeks.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: Loved to trot, you know. So anyways uh, this was at about the same time that my dad had his throat operated on.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And he called me and he said uh,--I'd bought Sparkling Choice.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And then I think that his surgery was after I'd bought Sparkling 52:00Choice, that's what it was. I'm sorry, I made a mistake there.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: And he said, "I don't know how much longer I'm gonna be able to train." Or, you know, he didn't know. And he said, "I've got Local Talent." Well, he had won, she'd won the Two-year old Harness Stake, One-year World's Champion, World's Champion Three-year old, World's Champion Four-year old, and then she'd won the Three-Gaited Stake two years in a row. Undefeated. And he said, "I'm gonna sell this mare," said, "and if you'd like to have her, you can have her." Well, I asked him what he wanted for her and he wanted a ton of money for her I thought, you know. Fifty thousand dollars was about the highest I'd 53:00ever heard of--

SMITH: --uh-hm--

TEATER: --at that time. And uh, I said, "I've got one person that--" and uh, it was Mr. Denham. I said, "I think that he might buy that mare for his youngest daughter." 'Cause one of the walk-trot horses I'd bought didn't turn out very good--

SMITH: --um--

TEATER: --earlier.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: So we kinda traded in you know, got rid of that one and so, I told Mr. Denham about this mare and he was very impressed with her record and everything, he said, "Well," he said uh, "let April," his youngest daughter's name--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --was April, said, "Let April go down there and ride that mare." I said, "Okay." So I called my dad and I said, "When can we come down?" "Well you can come down and look at her," and said, "you don't need to 54:00be bringing any of those little kids down here, 'cause I'm not letting anybody ride her." --(Smith laughs)-- And, "Dad," I said, "I've got a little girl," I said, "she's ridden some walk-trot horses," and I said, "She's an excellent rider." And April was just about as cute a girl as you've ever seen. Smart,--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --personality, knew how to get to, to talk to you and make you, and you'd just--why, anybody'd like her, you know. And I said, "Well," I said, "that man said that he'd want his daughter to ride her." "NO! No, just don't come down 'cause your not gonna--I'm not putting no little kid on there to practice on this mare. She doesn't need to be practiced." I said, "Well, okay." Well, I, I didn't know what to say to Mr. Denham. I didn't say anything tell you the truth. But, April, 55:00she got her riding pants on and her gloves and everything and Mr. Denham came. That's the first horse he went to look at--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --ever with me. Of all the horses I bought for him, he looked-- well, he never had seen Dodge Stables and I,--

SMITH: --oh--

TEATER: --and he knew enough about it that Dodge Stables was kind of the 'up here', you know.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: So we went to um, the Stables, the whole family went. And we went in and, and of course I introduced the Denhams to my father and they all just hit it off and I said, "This is April." Oh, and April knew just what to say to him, you know, how to talk to him. She loved horses and I knew if she could talk to him a little bit he might let her ride, you know. 'Cause he, if you loved horses, or liked horses my dad was your friend. --(laughs)-- That's all there was to it. So 56:00uh, he didn't, my dad didn't say anything to me and he got on the mare and, and rode her himself, you know. And uh, Mr. Denham says, "I, I like her." I said, "I do too." Uh, my dad rode up, stopped, you know, finished the work. And April was standing there just smiling at him, you know, like that. At, so one of the boys, said, "Uh, see if we haven't got some stirrups that might fit this little girl here." Now he said, "Now, you're just gonna go down there, and your gonna trot back and line up. That's it." She said, "Okay." Oh, she was just tickled to death, you know. -----------(??) So we bought her of 'course. We showed that mare fifty times--forty--fifty times within a three-year 57:00period, three and a half year period. And she'd won forty-nine blue ribbons and we came to Lexington to show.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And Mr. Denham did, didn't hardly come to the barn, ever to the show barn. And we got second at Lexington. And I thought, 'Oh my god, you know. Those people are really going to be disappointed', and the crying and I could see it, you know, I have, it, you've seen all those things happen at--

SMITH: --yeah--

TEATER: --you know, before but not at, quite of that magnitude, you know. So I uh, I was down at the barn kind of--oh my god, I look up and here comes Mr. Denham. Never been to a show barn. He comes down 58:00and he's just, he's got the biggest smile on his face, grabbed me and hugged me and said, "I'm glad that's over with." --(both laugh)-- He said, "I was tired of counting how many times that mare had won!" -- (both laugh)-- So it turned out nice, you know.

SMITH: Yeah, yeah.

TEATER: And uh, let's see, we're still at Rock Creek aren't we?

SMITH: We're still at Rock Creek. I was gonna ask you um, you mentioned Lover's Sensation?

TEATER: Yes.

SMITH: Now um, I think I read somewhere where your dad--his last ride was on Lover's Sensation --

TEATER: --yes--

SMITH: --was that right?

TEATER: Um-hm.

SMITH: And uh, that was when you were still at Rock Creek.

TEATER: Yes.

SMITH: Do you remember that?

TEATER: Yes.

SMITH: Did he, was it a special occasion?

TEATER: Uh, it's kind of a bitter sweet thing.

SMITH: Yeah.

59:00

TEATER: Uh, happy and sad.

SMITH: Um-hm, um-hm. You, also, I saw in one of the things that you rode a, um, a horse for you dad, I guess 1964 you would've still been at Dodge Stables. Is that Magic Circle?

TEATER: Uh-huh.

SMITH: Uh, 'cause it's listed under your dad's, but you were the rider.

TEATER: Yes, uh-huh.

SMITH: Okay, was that unusual?

TEATER: Uh, no. Sometimes I'd show horses and dad would show them.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: You know, if I didn't ride to suit him, you know. --(both laugh)-- He didn't like that. --(both laugh)--

SMITH: Was Magic Circle a pretty good horse?

TEATER: Pardon me?

SMITH: Was Magic Circle a pretty good horse?

TEATER: He was a nice horse. Yes, nice horse.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: There's nice horse's um, and then there's those horses. You know Lover, Lover's Sensation, a Local Talent, a Sea of Secrets, a 60:00---------(??), a Wing Commander,' course he's kind of --

SMITH: --yeah--

TEATER: -- in an elevation by himself. But uh, Showboat, and, I, you know so many great horses I've been around.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: In, in some ways uh, being raised the way I was, it, it was uh--I don't ever remember being around my father that he didn't have one--two great horses at a time in his barn.

SMITH: Um-hm. Um-hm.

TEATER: Never, and you know, that's not supposed to be that way. Uh, it's unusual, year after year after year after year, have that kind of 61:00special horse--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --one maybe two in your barn. And then I went through about a long period of time where there was seven or eight of those horses in the barn for several years.

SMITH: Hmm.

TEATER: And it's a-- I mean horses that were, that I would consider today very high priced horses.

SMITH: Um-hm. Hmm.

TEATER: I can't remember their names.

SMITH: --(laughs)-- Oh. Huh.

TEATER: And that's kinda sad. Uh, I mean, I kinda, I miss that part of it.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: Um, I know most of the really top horses.

62:00

SMITH: Today you mean?

TEATER: Yes, today too, sure. But uh, it, they kinda go blank on me.

SMITH: Um-hm--

TEATER: -- I don't really--

SMITH: --there's so many.

TEATER: I didn't want to remember them.

SMITH: Oh.

TEATER: You know, maybe, and that's bad. I should've you know, kept a more ----------(??). A nice horse I just kinda push out of my, my, you know. And you, you see that one that's really--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --like I was raised with. (Laughs)

SMITH: Yeah, yeah your uh--

TEATER: --yeah--

SMITH: --being exposed to so many of the greatest horses um, kind of raises your level of, of perception of what "great" is I guess, in some ways. But didn't you learn a lot from that? Did that help you 63:00recognize--

TEATER: --well, I don't know--

SMITH: --that a horse was special?

TEATER: I think most people can recognize a, a great one. It was, seemed like I was always around them, you know--

SMITH: --yeah--

TEATER: --that was, I, maybe I didn't appreciate it too as much. I look back and I, golly, they was great horses, you know. Maybe at the time I wasn't appreciating them like I should.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And uh, I look back and think, maybe I would change things. If I had it to do over again I'd be more aware, or more, not put them out of my mind.

SMITH: Yeah, yeah.

TEATER: 'Cause after you put them out of your mind uh, you can't remember--

SMITH: --yeah--

TEATER: --very well--

SMITH: --yeah--

TEATER: --you know. Unless somebody tells you a big story, you know, and then you can kinda put things back together, and your brain starts working again, and you remember, you know. The, the nicer horses, I 64:00remember everything about.

SMITH: Right. So when did you leave Rock Creek? When your father passed away?

TEATER: Let's see, I've got, well, I was there in '66, I started. And I left there in '71.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: And that's when I went back to Dodge Stables, after my dad had passed away.

SMITH: Did, is that something you wanted to do? Were you ready to leave Rock Creek?

TEATER: Uh, yes. Uh, yeah, I was looking for something different around that time.

SMITH: Um-hm. Who took over at Rock Creek when you left?

TEATER: Pardon me?

SMITH: Who took over at Rock Creek when you left?

TEATER: Charlie Smith did.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: He was in Houston, you know, and came up here and opened that 65:00barn up. I don't know how, he wasn't there a long time--a couple of years, I think.

SMITH: Rock Creek seems to be a, something of a training ground for trainers. Is that--

TEATER: --uh, it's a good place, very, very nice. And the people were nice. And uh, I enjoyed, I enjoyed everything about it, you know. ----------(??) I thought I got educated quite a bit, you know, in my business. And uh, I saw a different perspective of how people make their livings in--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: -- uh, in the horse business, 'cause, 'cause I'd always been on a private job, see.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: And uh, it was good, a good education for me. Uh, and it, and makes you respect uh, your fellow competitors and things more, I think, 66:00when you know what they have to go through to--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --you know. Which most it now is that way, everybody's that way now, 'cause there's very few private jobs.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: -----------(??) back in the, up to the, I guess, maybe up to the end of the '50s there was still a lot, lots of private jobs.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And then after you get up into the '70s starting in 1970, there's very few private uh, private jobs then.

SMITH: What--

TEATER: --and there's less each year. It's all public stables.

SMITH: What's the change? What caused the change?

TEATER: I don't know. There's just as much money. I mean, people can afford to have a private trainer if they want to. Specialties I think, 67:00may be part of it, you know.

SMITH: Hmm.

TEATER: These gals and boys can teach equitation and people want to go strictly for that. You know, they go--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --they, hard, hard to hire that one equitation person that can, when they've got forty kids that are, you know.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: Like Lillian and, and uh, uh, uh, Helen Crabtree, and things so you know, they had--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --be hard to hire them.

SMITH: Right. Yeah. --(both laugh)-- That's true, that's true.

TEATER: Uh.

SMITH: So you came back to, to Dodge Stables and we talked a little bit about how uh, what happened then and you were there just a, just a few years.

TEATER: Yeah, but they, let's see, my dad was still, let's see, I'm trying to think, '71?

SMITH: I have down that your dad died in '72.

TEATER: Yes, because my dad told me how to trade with Freddy, Mr. Van 68:00Lennep.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: --(laughs)-- He said this is what you tell him what you want.

SMITH: --(laughing)-- Okay.

TEATER: And that's what I finally did and ----------(??) yeah, yeah that's fine, that'd be good. But uh, uh, it was kinda a--I guess, I was very proud of it. Uh, you know, when you, your father uh, was my boss.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And he was excellent to work for. You did everything he said, you never heard from him.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And uh, I worked for him for a long time. Before even, you know,--

SMITH: --um-hm---

TEATER: --working the summers for him, things like that and.

69:00

SMITH: Right.

TEATER: Uh, I think we had one or two little arguments, you know. So we got along real--I, I enjoyed working for him. And uh, I, I mean it, it, but if you, he was tough if you didn't do what he said to do. He was, he was very nice. He would tell you every day what he wanted to do the next day. And, you better pay attention.

SMITH: When you took over in '72, did you feel prepared to, to take over for your dad?

TEATER: Uh.

SMITH: He had quite the reputation.

TEATER: Well uh, he's, yeah you call him legend--he's a legend, you know. And , and uh, I never felt uh, put down by my father.

SMITH: Hmm.

TEATER: And uh, I always felt like he did about horses about people. I 70:00put it in the same perspective, you know. And uh, you, you, you can't do anymore than what you're really capable of.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And I think that helped me, brain wise, as uh, not feeling pressure. You know, I, if I do what I'm capable of--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: -- then I don't know what the outcome is going to be. Or whether that's any standard. Uh, we know what his standard is. And I think that helped me more than anything, is what he said about a horse, you know, that they can just do what they're capable of doing. And I kinda just put that in myself, you know. Instead of thinking, 'I got 71:00to do better than what my father did,' I just do what I'm capable of doing. And if it, the horses turn out pretty good then that's great.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: I've done a good job. And which I think I've had a pretty respectable uh, career.

SMITH: Yeah, I'd say so.

TEATER: And uh, so I never, never felt anything uh, uh--he was my father and a, a good man, a wonderful trainer. He was like--I was reading in the paper this morning and I thought of my father. There was an article in there about Tiger Woods.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And he's playing with these, Phil Michelson and another fellow, they're all big name stars in the Open, the US Open.

72:00

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And this Trevor Immelman is a, a, won the uh, this year he won the Master's I think. And he's a young fellow and he was saying that he would uh, uh, that Tiger Woods is the greatest. And said, "You know," said, "I, I just walk around with him and watch him play." Of course, he's playing in the US Open.

SMITH: Right.

TEATER: But uh, I could, kinda missed my story there, what I wanted to tell you.

SMITH: Uh, it sounds like you were leaning towards, your dad was the greatest.

TEATER: Yeah uh, oh yeah. And he said, "You know, I've, I've gone before when I'm not playing and I follow Tiger and watch him. And it, 73:00it's an enjoyment to watch it, 'cause your not going to get to see it many more times, you know?"

SMITH: Hmm.

TEATER: And uh, ----------(??) that's the way I kinda felt, a little bit, you know. I enjoyed, when he work, worked a horse, I enjoyed watching it, you know.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: He'd show a horse, I enjoyed watching it because his preparation was so well--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --I mean, his knowledge of his horses, his horse and then he had knowledge of every horse he showed against.

SMITH: Yeah, yeah you were saying that last time.

TEATER: He knew their capabilities.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: And that's why he was such a great showman. He knew those horses' capabilities. And never, I never saw him, ever uh, disrupt somebody else's--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: -- show. Seen him take their pass away from them.

SMITH: Um-hm.

74:00

TEATER: Show his horse, that uh, was doing better than the other horse, you know. And uh, a very fair showman, you know. And uh

SMITH: How would you describe your dad's significance or contribution to the Saddlebred world? If you were placing him into some kind of historic perspective, what did he mean to the industry?

TEATER: Well, I think his love for the business was unbelievable. And uh, and people that had any interest in horses, he just loved them, you know, and uh, would spend hours with them to--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --uh, you know, was a, was a show manager, he would talk to them 75:00to try to get them to use maybe a certain ring that he knew was proven that would be good.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: He might do if for ten years before he'd get a show manager to change it, you know. I know at Madison Square Garden, they used to use dirt and all these different things, you know. My dad talked to the show manager up there for year after year after year. Said, "Just put sawdust in. Sawdust," says, "it's the quickest ring that has the best footing." You know, when have to, you know they play ice hockey there--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --when you're shipping in and the next morning you're working horses--

SMITH: --um--

TEATER: --on the same rink. So they got to put that dirt [telephone rings] in, and, they've gotta put the dirt in and everything ---------- (??) finally they went to the sawdust.

SMITH: Uh-huh.

TEATER: The Hunter and Jumper people loved it, you know. It was much 76:00safer, more, and more uniform.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And just little things like that, that he would work for. And uh, it seemed like he wanted the right thing, you know.

SMITH: Um-hm, um-hm.

TEATER: Uh

SMITH: Well, he seems to be very highly regarded uh, by the people I talk with as one of the finest--

TEATER: --oh yeah--

SMITH: --trainers. And 'course everyone talks about Wing Commander and--

TEATER: --yeah, yeah--

SMITH: --and I've heard Show Boat and all, you know, all these, the horses that he trained. Like you said he had, had many of the greatest.

TEATER: Yeah.

SMITH: So, okay, so you came back, and we talked last time about the dispersal of Dodge Stables, and uh, and then how you ended up at North Ridge even though you weren't sure you wanted to be there they sorta uh, made you--

TEATER: --yeah --(laughs)--

SMITH: -- the offer you couldn't refuse.

TEATER: Right. Right.

77:00

SMITH: Um, now North Ridge, you described it as being very different uh, from what you'd experienced before because it was so large.

TEATER: Yes. It was uh, I think when I went up there was, there was about forty some horses in training, and there was a hundred and--about a hundred and twenty-seven broodmares. And uh, I think there was four stallions.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: Uh, and Minnesota winters are just a little different from any (both laugh) place you've ever been. And you know, you might have twenty-five mares on a, you know, three or four acres. 'Cause all you did was feed them anyway--

SMITH: --yeah--

TEATER: --you know. And they were fat as they could be, but, you know, yet they couldn't graze across the fields where, 'cause the snow was 78:00there--

SMITH: --yeah--

TEATER: --you know. Couldn't--so it was, it was different. And uh

SMITH: Now, were you the head trainer or manager or--

TEATER: --yeah--

SMITH: -- or all of the--

TEATER: --I was the head of it, Yeah, I did the whole ball of wax.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: Uh, we had a, we had a broodmare man and we also had a residence veterinarian. He was excellent, a fellow named Ben Kincaid. And uh, uh, Doc came down here when we sold out and made a big name for himself in the Thoroughbred business.

SMITH: Oh.

TEATER: And made a ton of money. And he could, in the repro-, reproductive ---------(??) things, people were giving him mares, half interest in mares, if he could get them in foal, and these were real high-priced mares and then they'd give him half of the foal. And, and 79:00he just made--and, but he got burnt out and he went to uh, Colorado and he's a plumber now.

SMITH: A plumber!? --(laughs)--

TEATER: Yeah.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: And loves it.

SMITH: --(laughs)-- Yeah. Okay.

TEATER: They do uh, mass uh, housing plumbing.

SMITH: Really?

TEATER: You know, like, they build like a hundred homes and they take them and they bid it--

SMITH: -- yeah--

TEATER: --and there's uh, two other boys with him, well, they're men, they're not boys, they're--Doc's probably, he's sixty.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: And he's making a ton of money. --(laughs)--

SMITH: --(laughs)-- Well, it sounds like he did pretty well as a vet too. So, was he with you the whole time you were at North Ridge?

TEATER: Pardon me?

SMITH: Was he with you--

TEATER: --yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And, so he was kinda in charge of 80:00the broodmares too, see.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: He had a, he had a fellow working under him that ran the broodmare end of it, you know. And then uh, and see, we had sixty stalls up there, sixty-five stalls and a big place you could turn out in the middle--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: -- uh, kind of an arena, like. And that was all heated. 'Course everything's got to be heated up there or you, you don't work some. But they didn't keep that like, they'd keep it around like 35 to 40 degrees.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And uh, 'cause some of the horses out of that barn were going outside, you know. But the other barn which eventually has, when I, what, after a little while we had sixty-five stalls, training barn. And that was all heated and we kept that a little warmer, about 60 degrees.

81:00

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And uh -------------(??))

SMITH: Now, they had a Thoroughbred farm in Kentucky at the time, right?

TEATER: No, not at the time.

SMITH: Oh, okay.

TEATER: Uh, I was up there probably two years. And they bought uh, what was that, they bought the highest price yearling colt and he was a full brother to a Derby Winner. Majestic Prince, I believe it.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: Won the Derby in, let's see, what-- I would say Majestic Prince probably (pause) um,'76, probably, he probably won it around '76-'77, 82:00the Derby did I think. [editors note: Majestic Prince won the 1969 Kentucky Derby.]

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: And they bought this colt and that was kind of their introduction into Thoroughbreds.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: And uh, and they--there was a girl here in town named Ann Trimble.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And she had a farm out there on Yarnallton (??) Road. And they, they were kinda cus-, uh, her customer, you know. And she kinda introduced them into the Thoroughbred world. Leslie Combs and, you know, that group and--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --and then they kinda, you know, didn't do a whole lot and then 83:00all at once they just went wild in it, you know. They just bought one mare after another and stallions and Seattle Slew and they did it all, you know.

SMITH: Do you think uh, that Mr. Combs was an influence on them?

TEATER: Huh?

SMITH: Do you think that Mr. Combs, Leslie Combs was an influence on them. He was buying and selling a lot of horses in those days.

TEATER: Well, they, they, they bought a lot of horses. And, but it was uh, the Groves were very nice to me. Uh, their uh, their children, uh, they had three children and they all rode or drove.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And uh, but -----------(??) had a pretty good uh, I think they were satisfied with the uh, years that I was there. I was only there ten years I think. Yeah.

84:00

SMITH: Now you had Belle Elegant--

TEATER: --yes--

SMITH: --while you were there?

TEATER: Um-hm. And you know, the kids all won Worlds Championships. We raised top babies. Uh, uh, Betsy won the Five-Gaited uh, Amateur on Seymour's Southern Aire. And Kathy won with Too Much, a five- gaited horse that won the Amateur Five-Gaited, the Ladies Five-Gaited Championship. And then uh, Sultan's Supremacy won the Three-Gaited Amateur Championship. And then Skip won with a pony called Whiplash.

SMITH: Hmm.

TEATER: Uh, a Hackney pony, that's a, a rode pony.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: Beautiful pony. And it was very exciting. And Mrs. Grove won 85:00with her uh, Hackney pony. 'Course I won the, the gaited, the World's Championship which is quite a feat to do. And I, I had a wonderful mare, Belle Elegant, she was beautiful and very athletic and uh--

SMITH: --did she belong to the Groves?

TEATER: Yeah.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: Everything belonged to the Groves there, yeah. And uh.

SMITH: Was she there before you came?

TEATER: Yes.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: Jack Nevitt showed her uh, two years before and won the World's Championship with her too.

SMITH: Ah.

TEATER: And then Jack left there and I moved in, you know. Uh, we made a lot of shows and showed a whole lot. Uh, for a private stable I 86:00thought we showed a whole lot. --(both laugh)-- And 'course everything is so far it's the worst thing. You know, you, you go, you know, if you want to go to Kansas City it's not too bad, it's like four hundred and some, uh, come to Lexington it's probably six--well, it takes about twelve hours, wherever how long that is. And uh, just about anywhere you went, you know, you got in, and you had to drive a pretty good distance. To go to Chicago it, you know, four, five, six hours. Wasn't like around here, you know. You could just make, you could make twenty five shows around here and not drive over a hundred miles.

SMITH: Did they ever consider moving the Saddlebred operation to Kentucky?

TEATER: Well, yes they did. They did have consideration of that uh, quite a bit until they had uh, some financial troubles.

SMITH: Now do you think the financial troubles were related to 87:00everything that happened in the mid '80s to the '90s? Where there was a recession and the tax reform act and.

TEATER: No, it was, it was something to do with the company.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: The company was, I think it, when I went to work there it was about the second largest in the company, construction company, heavy con-, construction--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --uh, in the United States. And uh, very much looked up to. And uh, they had, they had a couple of jobs that just went really sou-, south, you know, and. That's a different story that I don't need to talk about too much. --(laughs)--

SMITH: Sure, I understand.

TEATER: And uh.

SMITH: But at what point did you realize uh, begin to think that they were going to let go of the Saddlebred operation?

TEATER: When they sold the jet planes.

SMITH: Oh.

TEATER: --(laughs)-- We had two little uh, jets and uh, you could just 88:00get on one of those and be in, I'd be in Lexington in an hour and thirty minutes.

SMITH: Yeah. Yeah, you told me they flew you up on one.

TEATER: One way you go this way in an hour and twenty minutes and this way an hour and thirty minutes. --(Smith laughs)--They were nice.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: And when they sold those, I told Suzie, I said, "I think things aren't good." (laughs) I said, "We might have to be leaving here." But they were, they were very good to me uh, monetarily. Uh, we left on wonderful terms. And they're still, uh, they've been, you know, they, the sales they've been good, good business for us, you know.

SMITH: Are they still involved with Saddlebreds at all?

TEATER: No. No, they're just about completely out of Saddlebreds now. They might have one, but that, you know.

SMITH: They do Thoroughbreds? They still have Thoroughbreds?

89:00

TEATER: Uh.

SMITH: I couldn't tell when I was looking--

TEATER: --I would say that they don't have Thoroughbreds. I'm guessing.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: They did have a few here a couple of years ago but I, I don't think they have those now.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: See, they live in Las Vegas now.

SMITH: Oh.

TEATER: And uh, their uh, and she's not in real good health right now.

SMITH: Oh, sorry.

TEATER: Always had bad hip, bad knee. And uh, and she's had some heart problems here lately, too. She's game. (both laugh) She'd hop along, and she wouldn't never let, never say a word about she's hurting or anything, she'd go.

SMITH: Ah. Hmm.

TEATER: Yeah. We loved it though, up there in Wayzata, where we lived.

90:00

SMITH: Despite the cold?

TEATER: Uh, I would get out of there. I'd go to Florida at least twice a year. And uh, until my youngest son was born, Ryan, and we didn't get to go that year. --(Smith laughs)--Because uh, Suzie had to go on bed rest, you know.

SMITH: Oh.

TEATER: So.

SMITH: Well, I'm gonna switch gears a little bit on you here and ask you about your family. So tell me how you meet Suzie.

TEATER: Well, I've known Suzie for a long time before we married. She was um,--she's from Evansville.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And uh, she had horses with Jim B.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And she had a couple of good World's Champions and she had a World's Champion Three-Gaited mare, she had. And then the foundation 91:00of our two mares out here is a mare that is the second dam of them all, third dam.

SMITH: Hmm.

TEATER: And, a mare called Princess Julia.

SMITH: Yeah, okay.

TEATER: And she was a World's Champion Five-Gaited mare and she was a great, Suzie's an excellent rider. Uh, hadn't ridden in quite a while now, but.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: And she always thought that after she married me that uh, she didn't need to be in my business, you know.

SMITH: Oh.

TEATER: And, you know, it's, I guess it was okay, but I think she missed riding, you know. Having a nice horse and showing.

SMITH: So you got married in 1972, is that right?

TEATER: Yes.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: 1972, I think that's been thirty years or more ago. (Laughs)

SMITH: Yeah, it's been a few years. And tell me about your children.

92:00

TEATER: Well, I have three children by my first wife.

SMITH: Oh, okay.

TEATER: And uh, Martin, my oldest son, he has the barn down here.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And then he's got uh, two children. And uh, Cassidy is uh, the girl, and she is in, in her first year of uh, law school.

SMITH: Oh.

TEATER: And she's real talented and real smart. And he has a son, Jason, and he works at Rood & Riddle.

SMITH: Oh, okay.

TEATER: And uh, and then I have a, one daughter. Her name is Mary David and she's a kinda, she's been in the hat business.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: We wear a lot of hats in the Saddle Horse business. (both laugh)

SMITH: Yeah. That's true.

TEATER: And, you know, the women wear a lot of really dressy hats, like Derby hats.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: She trades in that and uh--

93:00

SMITH: --oh, okay--

TEATER: --and, you know, she has little showings and people come buy hats from her. And then she used to-- up until about a year ago, she traveled on the circuit of shows and carried her wares and uh, she really like that. And she has, she has a son, uh, in fact, she's in Dallas now. And he lived, he graduated from SMU and he's in real estate business in the uh, what do you call that? Commercial, he's in the commercial real estate in Dallas.

SMITH: Hmm.

TEATER: And then my youngest daughter lives in Northern Kentucky and she has three children. She's got uh--

SMITH: -- and what's her name?

TEATER: Whitney. She's got a little boy that's, let's see, Tristan is 94:00eight, nine maybe. And Paris, her daughter is uh, youngest daughter is seven. And then, her oldest daughter is seventeen.

SMITH: Oh, that's a, that's a stretch.

TEATER: Yeah, it's, second marriage.

SMITH: --okay--

TEATER: --yeah--

SMITH: --okay so you had three children with the first marriage?

TEATER: Uh-huh.

SMITH: Okay and I'll back you up. When did you first get married? How old were you, roughly?

TEATER: Oh hell, I was, I was just a child. --(both laugh)-- When I look back on it. --(Smith laughs)--Uh, oh, I think when I got out of the Army I was like, twenty-one. And I got married that year.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: So, I was twenty-one when I got married the first time.

SMITH: Okay. Uh, hate to ask personal questions but that's what I'm 95:00doing in an interview. Did, did you get divorced or--

TEATER: --it don't matter, hell, that's fine.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: If I don't want to answer I won't answer. (both laugh)

SMITH: Okay, that's good, that's fine. I appreciate that. So, you got divorced? Is that, or?

TEATER: Yes, uh-hm.

SMITH: Okay. Okay. And uh, then you married Suzie. And you and Suzie have how many children?

TEATER: We just have the one.

SMITH: Just the one, okay.

TEATER: Yeah, we were married for ten years before we had him.

SMITH: Oh, yeah.

TEATER: That's a rude awakening.

SMITH: Yeah, I bet. --(laughs)-- Been a long stretch between kids for you too. Aw. And what's his name?

TEATER: Ryan.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: Ryan is uh, he's twenty, yeah Ryan's twenty- five, right, twenty-five.

SMITH: Okay. I think I met him when I was here last time.

TEATER: Yeah.

SMITH: Very nice young, young man.

TEATER: Yes, he's a good boy.

SMITH: And he's involved in the horse--

TEATER: --well uh, he likes horses a whole lot, and he's an excellent 96:00rider.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: Uh, he thinks there's a little bit more money the other way and he's in the real estate business, too.

SMITH: Oh, okay. Okay.

TEATER: And he's uh, he's doing very well, so.

SMITH: Oh.

TEATER: He's just been doing it two years. But he's got a fellow that uh, named Tom Biederman, that's Biederman Realty.

SMITH: Yeah, I've heard of it.

TEATER: And he specializes in horse farms.

SMITH: Oh, okay.

TEATER: And uh, uh, and Tom is an auctioneer.

SMITH: Oh.

TEATER: And he auctions for Fasig-Tipton, the Thoroughbreds.

SMITH: Oh, he sounds just like Walt.

TEATER: Well, he is. It, I mean, he and Walt, uh, well he works for Walt really.

SMITH: Okay. Yeah.

TEATER: 'Cause Walt, Walt's the head man out there--

SMITH: --that's right--

TEATER: --at Fasig-tipton. And they have a lot of uh, businesses that intermingle--

97:00

SMITH: --yeah--

TEATER: --he and Walt do.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: And Ryan works for Walt and uh, sales, you know, different sales jobs uh, set-ups, uh, uh, they just had a big uh, uh estate sale. Ryan kinda did every, helped them with everything there.

SMITH: Oh, okay.

TEATER: And uh, but, he works actually for Tommy Biederman.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: I mean uh, he goes to the office everyday there and, and he just loves it.

SMITH: Okay

TEATER: It's, he's so lucky, he just was, he was uh, well, he'd work at the sales company for us.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And uh, Walt got to liking him and said, "You outta let Ryan bid spot." And I said, "Hell, he doesn't know how to bid spot," you know. Said, "Yes he does. He'll learn." And sure enough he's a really good 98:00bid spotter--

SMITH: --really--

TEATER: --you know, which there's quite a knack between that and you gotta have, you gotta know what the auctioneers thinking and what he's doing and the bid spotter and, there's a lot more to it than just doing that, you know.

SMITH: Oh, yeah absolutely.

TEATER: There's quite a bit to it.

SMITH: Yeah I was asking uh--

TEATER: -- and it's, and it, it's something that you learn, you know, sale by sale. And uh, then Walt got to using him out at Fasig-Tipton to run the very sophisticated uh, bid board.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: And it uh, not a lot of people--you just can't get somebody and they run it. But he said, "Ryan can do it." And so uh, and he does a lot of charity things--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --where he has to have bid spotters and things like that and sound system set up and he'll call Ryan and Ryan sets it up and is there for the, and does the bid taking and takes it down, puts it away 99:00for him.

SMITH: Does he enjoy doing that?

TEATER: Oh, yeah. Yeah, I mean, he's loves Walt and, and uh, uh, Walt's tough on him but he loves him, just really likes him.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And I mean, if Walt said, "You run through that window now," Ryan will run through that window.

SMITH: Oh. Lot of respect there.

TEATER: Yeah, yeah. And uh, and Tommy has just uh, Tommy Biederman has just been a, uh, uh--I don't know, he couldn't pay fifty thousand dollars and get the education he's getting.

SMITH: Hmm.

TEATER: Uh, Tommy said, uh-- Tommy was out at the, he was auctioneering out there and Ryan was running the bid thing, and he and, and Tommy and Walt were talking together, And he said, "I really need another person to, to, to help me with this real estate." And uh, Walt said, "Why don't you get uh, Ryan, there." He looked, they looked over, said, Ryan 100:00said he could see them looking at him, you know. Said he was sitting down there doing the bid board, they have four auctioneers, see.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: And so Tommy came over and said, "How'd you like to go to work for me?" Well, he said, "I don't have a license," he said, "Well, you'll have to get one." And so he said, "I, yeah, I'll go to work for you." And so, he'd just out of college, you know.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: So uh, he got his license and things. And Tommy said, I, I, "You're not going to make the same mistakes I made." Said, "I'm gonna see to it, that you don't." And he has been just phenomenal with him. Uh, now he wants him to get his broker's license because Tommy travels a lot with Walt.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: You know, cause they have auctions in Florida, New York--

101:00

SMITH: --New York, Texas--

TEATER: --California and Texas, and, you know, they're, they're traveling a lot. And he gets--what happens is, is get gets, he's a broker, of course--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --and auctioneer. Well, he gets a big deal going and he's got to be out of town. Well, there's nobody can do it for him in his office that are brokers.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: So he wants Ryan to get his brokerage license, so that, you know, that way he's kinda freed up.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And it--it'll be a good thing for him. But, it takes about four months I think to get your brokerage license. And it's--it requires some, you know--in other words, you've got to work at it.

SMITH: Right.

TEATER: --to get your brokerage license.

SMITH: Now your oldest son, Martin. He's involved with horses too, right?

TEATER: Oh yeah, he's doing real well. He's gotta--we just got back 102:00from Indianapolis and he showed five times up there and won four. It was uh, well he was, something happened and the horse didn't make for a good show back. And has one real, real nice horse.

SMITH: So, is he a pri- uh, public trainer?

TEATER: Yes.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: And uh, he doesn't go quite at it as large as what I did. We, I just have fourteen stalls down here.

SMITH: Oh, okay. Okay. So--

TEATER: Where were we? I forgot.

SMITH: I was talking, getting all the family connections down--

TEATER: --oh, okay--

SMITH: --all your children so, um. And you were talking about Ryan and his work with Walt.

TEATER: Yeah, yeah.

SMITH: Um, let's bring you back to, you got back from North Ridge and how did you get involved with Tattersalls?

TEATER: Um, well uh, I don't know whether you'd call being a customer 103:00of Tattersalls, but throughout my years, I've always been a real good customer of Tattersalls.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: Uh, I sold, one time I sold eighty head there uh, in one day with them.

SMITH: Oh, my.

TEATER: That I was the manager of. And, and then, of course, I think what really got me kinda thinking about sales companies and things, I could, I always did like to be around sales. And I, I, I, as I told you before uh, well, we moved down here in '48, 1948.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And then, and when that, then when I was a junior in high school, which would be about 1950, I started working uh, for Mr. Eddy 104:00that owned Tattersalls at that time.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: And uh, I did everything. Uh, I put numbers on hor-, numbered horses for them uh, and for some reason Mr. Eddy really liked me. And he was just a, uh, you know, Mr. Eddy was from New Orleans and he was a real southern man. He wore a bowtie and a, I mean, his outfits were just impeccable, you know, just sharp as he could be. Never got out of his office much, stayed in his office--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: -- you know. He didn't get out and about. And there was a--how I got hired, it was by a black man that worked for Mr. Eddy and uh, his name was Jack Bowman. And uh, Jack was a guy that uh--of, of all trades, of course. Uh, and it used to be when you sold a horse at a 105:00sale-- this is back in the '20s, and the'30s, and the'40s and uh, and it stopped in the early '50s. But uh, they'd always have a man in the center of the ring when you'd get through working your horse, selling it.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: They'd take the saddle off and this man would take hold of your horse and stand it up. Well, that Jack Bowman did that. That was one of his jobs.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And his other was, is that he was Mr. Eddy's ears. Everything that was said on the sales grounds--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: -- Jack always knew it. And, but I worked with Jack all the time.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And Mr. Eddy got to know me. Of course, he knew who my father was, you know.

SMITH: Yeah, yeah.

TEATER: And I'm sure that helped, that didn't hurt. And uh, uh, but he 106:00got where he'd just--I'd start at six in the morning and I'd work 'til, I don't know, sometimes ten o'clock at night. Sometimes six o'clock at, in the afternoon I'd be done. And he paid me real well. Uh, back then, he'd pay me twenty-five dollars a day, which was big money--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --I thought, anyway. And, uh, but I did everything. Uh, and then uh, Jack Bowman and Mr. Eddy said uh, "Ya'll wanta take tack sale." Now, tack sale is pretty profitable little venture, you know, for a one day deal. Well, Jack he, Jack Bowman, he had a, a great big ole' car, big ole' Cadillac. Nice, nice car, but he always bought big ones, the biggest Cadillac you could buy. And he'd go around all winter. He'd hear of some body selling out and he'd go over and then 107:00he'd find out how much they wanted for their equipment, you know.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And then he'd come to me and I'd have to go borrow the money and I'd give Jack the money. And then he'd bring it all to my house, all this stuff. And I had to clean it all winter long, see. And then we'd split the profit. --(laughs)--

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: So I had to put up the money, do the work and Jack would find it, see. --(Smith laughs)--And then we had a tack sale, and we did that. And uh, uh, which was a, a pretty big deal, you know.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: We'd make four or five hundred dollars a piece that one day.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And uh, and Mr. Eddy would always let me have the concession stand for the cattle sales.

SMITH: Oh, okay.

TEATER: The western cattle?

SMITH: Uh-huh.

TEATER: And uh, I'd always make a hundred dollars that day. I'd get up 108:00there about five o'clock in the morning, and I had to take, the only thing I has was Coca-Colas and root beer and stuff like that. And uh, you'd have maybe some hotdogs--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --candy, gum; you know, just things like that. Six o'clock that night you'd be closed up and have a, send everything back, you know, you'd have a hundred dollars in your pocket.

SMITH: Yeah. So how long did you do that?

TEATER: Oh, I worked there probably about uh, three years, pretty regular. Yeah.

SMITH: Okay, okay.

TEATER: Maybe four, three to four, right, until I went in the Army.

SMITH: All right.

TEATER: Um-hm. And it was uh,-- and then, I, I consigned a lot of horses to the sales, you know, -------------(??).

109:00

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And I thought, when we got to have Dodge's dispersal?

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And Suzie, I was married to Suzie at the time, and she's a, very instrumental in uh, things I believe in, she can, she can do them--

SMITH: --okay--

TEATER: --you know, the mechanics of it. I have no idea how to do the mechanics of a catalog.

SMITH: Right.

TEATER: You know, but I see what I want, but to get it done is a different thing. And, and uh, Dodge's dispersal was the kinda the start of Saddle Horses catalogs changing--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --to where it was strictly information and not just adjectives--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --telling about how beautiful the horse was. In other words we put the record in there of their--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: -- sires and their dames and what they'd produced, exactly what 110:00they'd produced, every foal. And that, that catalog, it kinda, we were proud of it. Uh, and, and we kinda copied it initially from the Standardbred catalog where they have strictly information.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: You know, it's no glorified thing, you know, write up.

SMITH: Right.

TEATER: And uh, so I kinda liked that part of it. And I enjoyed working with the uh, different sales managers that--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --they had at Tattersalls. Dudley Abbott was one of them, the last one before we took over, I sold a lot of horses with him. And then Carl Garner was there when we had the Dodge dispersal.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And uh, so, you know, and I sold a lot of horses with them at 111:00North Ridge.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: So I had, I had a lot of uh, kind a personal contacts from the, as being how I'd like to be treated if I'm a customer of theirs--

SMITH: --um-hm

TEATER: --you know. So I think we had some input that way, you know.

SMITH: Right.

TEATER: But how uh, Mr. Van Lennep uh, called me and ask me to come out the farm. This was after I'd came back from--

SMITH: --Minnesota--

TEATER: uh, Minnesota. And I didn't know it at the time when I went out there, but uh, Mr. Van Lennep was uh--he didn't uh, he didn't look bad to me, but he looked a little thin.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And uh, and we talked and uh, I didn't know exactly what he 112:00wanted. You know, he just said, "Come out to the farm. I want to visit with you." Well, usually, when, if he ever said that to you, he wanted, he had something on his mind--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --you know. And so um, I went out there and he said, "I want to uh, I'd like to hire you to be the uh, new manager of Tattersalls." And I said, "I don't know whether I'm ready to be hired again or not." I said, "I've just come off." He kinda laughed and we talked a while and I said, "Well, let me think about," you know. So we got ready to leave, he walked out to the car with me and he was going to his car, too. And he, golly, he just stunned me. He said uh, "Ed, I'm not going to be around much longer, now." And his father was a doctor--

SMITH: --hmm--

113:00

TEATER: --and uh, he told me just as, everything that was wrong with him, he sounded like a doctor--

SMITH: --um-hm, hmm--

TEATER: --talking to, you know. Knew all the names of what everything he had and he said uh, "two or three months at the most," you know. But he says, "You know, I don't feel too bad," said, "I feel all right." Said, "I'm a little thin." And uh, I, I just couldn't get over his attitude, you know, it--

SMITH: --yeah--

TEATER: -- wonderful attitude. Uh, and he did. He died about two or three months later. But anyways, I, I went uh, I don't know, my brother Lou--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --and uh, and his wife Mary Ann, they lived down on Tate's Creek. Suzie and I would, we'd go out there ever-, you know, quite a bit. We visited back and forth a lot. And uh, oh and business, too. My brother and I always had horses together. And uh, well, we 114:00went out and we was sitting there, it was late evening--not late, late evening but, you know, getting towards supper time--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --but no supper being cooked, you know. So, we had a couple of drinks, and "well, let's go get something to eat." So, we started talking about this, you know. I tell them about what Mr. Van Lennep wanted with me and everything. And I don't know whether Lou said it or, whether I said it or one of the girls said it and, "What would we do with it," you know. But anyways, it came out that, "Well, why don't we lease it from 'em?" And I said, "Sounds all right to me." You know, and we all talked a little bit more and, "Well, see what you can get done" you know, so I said, "Okay". I called Mr. Van Lennep back and I said, "You know, I don't think I'd be interested in being hired again, but" I said, "I'd be interested in leasing it." "Why," he said, "I think 115:00that's a great idea," he said, "I never thought about that." And that's how I got, really got started into it, And uh, it was lot of fun.

SMITH: About how many sales were they, were you putting on there in the beginning?

TEATER: Well, we put on three sales a year for about twenty years.

SMITH: Was it all Saddlebred?

TEATER: Yes.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: And the last two years, we've just had two sales. Or just the last year. Last year was, we dropped the summer sale and we just have a spring and fall sale now.

SMITH: Why did you do that?

TEATER: The Junior League Horse Show has grown so big that uh, and they have so many more classes that they've added on. It used to be like they just had a class, a few classes Saturday afternoon--

116:00

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --when we started with the sales business. And then they moved where they had the classes on Thursday aft-, I mean, morning I'm talking about, I'm sorry--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: Friday afternoon, Friday morning rather, and then they started having classes Thursday morning, then they started having classes Wednesday morning. And pretty soon, it turns out, it's a great big ole' show, you know.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: And it used to not be, we didn't have anything in, in the mornings. Uh, consequently, people had time to work the horses, get a little rest and come to the sale.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: And the more they added the, our sale kinda kept going down and down and down. The trainers used to, used to bring horses to the show and then they'd have horses at the sale. But when they, they got, all 117:00the, they added all these classes, they were showing at night, working horses at night, getting up trying to show horses--

SMITH: --right--

TEATER: --in the morning and they got where that they were too exhausted. If they brought sale horses they'd ---------(??), it'd kill them out.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: And they'd come to me and they'd say, "That's the last year I'm ever gonna do that. I either bring sale horses or I bring show horses--

SMITH: --okay--

TEATER: --I'm not gonna do both." And it just kinda, and it got down so, to where that we didn't think it was, you know, a lot of good customers and things--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --of the whole industry come to the Lexington Junior League Show.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: And we didn't think that we were doing a service by the type of sale that we were having. And so we said, "Let's just get rid of this." You know, it, it just wasn't working out, you know.

118:00

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And the sale pavilion is, used to be air-conditioned and it's not air-conditioned anymore. Just the restaurant part is air- conditioned now, and the office.

SMITH: Oh.

TEATER: And people pass out in there. They get to hot and, and that's another reason that we quit. And uh, which I think that it's the best that we did. Uh, 'cause I think it wasn't a good reflection on our business, what we were having.

SMITH: Um-hm, um-hm.

TEATER: And uh, but we've had some uh, wonderful sales.

SMITH: Is any, is the, is there any sale that sticks in your mind?

TEATER: Well, you know we've, we've had, uh, you know, we have sessions 119:00that are so good. You know, we have ses-, a day session, say, or a night session and, you know, we're not a select sale.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: We're a public sale.

SMITH: Right.

TEATER: And, you know, uh, people'll say, "What do you average?" you know. Well, the wholesale might average thirty-five hundred dollars, you know. But a session might average eighty-five hundred--ten thousand dollars.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And then, of course, when we had--we had some sales for Mrs. Weldon.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And she has, she had Callaway Hills Stable in, out in Missouri. And I, I think we had four or five sales for her, each one of them was a record breaker. But there was only fifty-five head that she sold at a time.

SMITH: Oh, okay.

120:00

TEATER: And uh, one year we averaged uh, on those fifty-five head, averaged twenty-five thousand dollars a head. Uh, which is probably the highest, no doubt about it, the highest Saddlebred--

SMITH: --hmm--

TEATER: -- average ever a sale. And uh.

SMITH: How uh, now Tattersalls is one of the oldest horse sales in the country, correct?

TEATER: It's one of the, got, have to be one of the oldest. --(laughs)--

SMITH: Now um, is there any other Saddlebred sale in the United States that compares to Tattersalls, today?

TEATER: There's one out in Missouri.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: Uh, they call it Superior Sales. And uh, it's a new sale.

SMITH: Oh, okay.

TEATER: Art Simmons used to have a sale out in uh, at the American Royal 121:00building every year.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And uh, then they had a sale down in uh, it's right outside Atlanta.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: Dewey Henderson has that sale for several years. Nice sale, you know. Dewey died and that kind of died out then, you know. Uh, and that's about it, you know. Been a lot, not been a lot of Saddle Horse places to have sales.

SMITH: Now, how are most Saddle Horses sold? Is it through a sale like Tattersalls or is it private?

TEATER: Uh, well, I'm trying to think. I would say that probably uh, a vast majority of the horses sell privately. Uh, we'll get the, some 122:00dispersals, you know, that are selling out. Uh, we get a mixed bag of horses, you know. We'll have a, a thousand dollar broodmare and then we'll have a twenty thousand dollar broodmare--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --you know.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: We'll have a ten thousand dollar walk-trot horse, three-gaited horse, and we'll have a fifty thousand dollar three-gaited horse. We'll have a ten thousand dollar five-gaited horse, we'll have a ninety thousand dollar in the same sale.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: You know. So, we have a mixed bag. And that's uh, and I think that's why people kinda like our sale.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: And uh, we've sold uh, we've sold the dams uh, the mares, the dams, of I don't know how many. Uh, Suzie did a uh, research on it 123:00here couple of weeks ago. On what dams we have sold that have produced champions at Louisville.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: It's quite phenomenal. So we're gonna come out with that and --

SMITH: --good--

TEATER: --publicize it, you know. 'Cause it--

SMITH: --good, that's what the sales companies do.

TEATER: We didn't even know we'd done it either, you know.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: Well, the sales, we didn't know the sales had done it, you know.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: Uh, but a lot of the broodmares have produced, that have sold--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --have gone on and produced, you know--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --World's Champions. And uh, but I think that, you know, we had a--odd to say this but I, there was a fellow uh, his name was uh, Herb Kohler. And he's a very wealthy man, he has Kohler uh, toilets and--

SMITH: --oh, that's K-O-H-L-E-R--

124:00

TEATER: --um-hm--

SMITH: --yeah, okay.

TEATER: Nice fellow, very, very wealthy and has some of the finest uh, Morgan horses in the world. And for some reason his trainer, Tom Case, asked us to put a sale on for them. Which we don't do too much of that, you know. And uh, so we put this sale on for them. They had uh, sixty head, I believe. One day sale, you know. Well, it was really two days because they do things a little different with the Morgans than--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --what we do with the Saddle Horses. -----------(??) you know, they take a little more time, and they have them a party, and then,--

SMITH: --aw--

TEATER: -- then they sell a few more, you know. It's nice. It was nice. But, everything first-class--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --you know. And uh, so anyways, I agreed to take the sale--

125:00

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --you know, and do it. And uh, we got ready to have that sale and there wasn't anybody in that sales pavilion, but about five, six people sitting on one side here and maybe five here and, there were only twenty people in that sales pavilion. I thought, I was the sickest person. I told Walt, I said, "Walt, why did I do this." He said, "Oh," he said, "don't worry." He said, "There's," he says, "what's, what are you worrying about?" I said, "I can count everybody here." I was sitting up on the podium up there.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: "You count them?" "One, two, three, four, five," these are the bidders gonna be. About five over here and five on this side, that was it. Saw a few people way in the back there.

SMITH: Uh-huh.

TEATER: And, you know, that sale started and didn't seem like anyone else came, but, bam--(claps hands)-- first horse sold like that, -- 126:00(claps hands)--second horse sold , just wham, bam! Just people bidding just as fast as they could bid. Then there got to be a few more people, you know.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: A, a decent crowd. Not any big crowd, but a decent crowd, you know.

SMITH: Yeah, they were buying. --(laughs)--

TEATER: And we sold a million two hundred thousand dollars worth that day.

SMITH: Oh my!

TEATER: Averaged like twenty-six thousand dollars a head. Highest priced Morgan sale ever--

SMITH: --huh--

TEATER: --average. And then, you know, they say we can't sell horses very high at the Tattersalls, we sold a, sold a two-year old one time for three hundred and sixty-five thousand.

SMITH: Oh.

TEATER: We sold quite a few two-year olds at two fifty.

SMITH: Um-hm. Hmm.

TEATER: Uh, so it's, it's a, it, it's a, int-, it's interesting to, to 127:00watch everything, e-, evolve, you know, when you're having a sale.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And uh, you know, to, a sale, after you have the first day, with me, I can go ten days of sale.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: But it's getting that first, all those little things, that the paper work that the girls go through and it's just, that's just horrible.

SMITH: Now this is a, a family business, right?

TEATER: Uh, well, when we first started off uh, my brother Lou--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: -- who passed away--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --and his wife Mary Ann and Suzie and myself. We were the owners of the corporation.

SMITH: Um-hm. And that's um, Teater's Saddlebred--

TEATER: --uh-huh--

SMITH: --Enterprises? Okay.

TEATER: Right, TSE Tattersall. And uh, and we made it into a very 128:00successful sales company and then my brother passed away. Oh, we'd had the sales company maybe eight, ten years.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And then uh, Suzie and I bought Mary Ann out.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And uh, Mary Ann remarried a fellow named Roger Partick. He's a fellow from up in, uh, has been friends of the family for a long time-- an attorney up in uh, Columbus--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --Indiana. Mary Ann's from Seymour and their just about twenty- five miles apart, so they'd, they'd known each other. Then Lou and Mary Ann and--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --um, Roger, was his name, they were all good friends. And 129:00Roger had horses and--

SMITH: --okay.

TEATER: And uh, so the--well, my oldest son and my youngest son 'course help with the sale. Uh, Ryan he does a little, ----------(??) he does anything that we would need to be done. And Martin's more of a uh, a sales coordinator, you know, I mean, if there's a problem, I send Martin. Uh, we watch a sale very closely. I, I uh, I, I, since I've got older, I make Martin do it more. I make him stay on the stand more.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And if there's a problem, then I'll go make him get off the stand and take care of the problem. --(both laugh)-- I don't want to sit up there too long. But, and it's, so it's working real well, you know. And Ryan can kinda take care of anything--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: -- that um, his mother might need in the office, you know. 130:00There's so many little problems, you know.

SMITH: Oh, I 'm sure.

TEATER: And, I mean, they have to be uh, fixed immediately. Um, because we would uh, the paperwork has to be exact, or we won't sell a horse.

SMITH: Right.

TEATER: So, we want every horse's paperwork so we're, you have to stay after the people.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: You know, they just think it's not important. But, they don't mean anything by it, they just don't think that it's important to have their paperwork, you know. And uh, it's, it's not such a big business to them as, you know, say--

SMITH: --right--

TEATER: --you got a million dollars in your mare, and two hundred and fifty thousand in your stallion season, you'd pay attention to your paperwork.

SMITH: Right.

TEATER: But, you got ten thousand in there and you got a thousand dollar stud fee uh, you know, they're not going to worry too much.

SMITH: Yeah, yeah.

TEATER: And, so you have to kinda stay on top of them to keep your 131:00paperwork rolling in correctly and things.

SMITH: So while you've had um, the sales company, have you als-, did you also continue training?

TEATER: I did up until about uh, six years ago. I, I trained it down here all the time.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: When I, I got through at Minnesota?

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: I started training here.

SMITH: Oh, okay.

TEATER: Uh, well, let's see. I rented two or three places and trained. And I got tired of moving and so I told Suzie, I said, "I'm just gonna build a barn." And so I built a, a fourteen stalls and it's got a good work way and uh, it's real nice, unless you want to get big--

SMITH: --yeah--

TEATER: --you know, real big. But, I still had it empty stalls so I, I 132:00was doing all right.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: I always like those empty stalls 'cause you know you sold one. --(both laugh)-- And that's the only way you make any money, you know, out of training horses is selling. You don't make it training, you can't, there's no way.

SMITH: Yeah. Yeah, that's what, Walt's explained that to me.

TEATER: Yeah, yeah.

SMITH: So, so you came back from uh, Minnesota--

TEATER: --well, I trained here for--what year did I come back? I, I've got those dates written down here.

SMITH: Would've been in the '80s.

TEATER: Uh, '80, '85.

SMITH: Okay. And you--

TEATER: --I trained horses here twelve-fourteen years.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: Maybe fifteen years. About fifteen years after I got back. And then, I don't know why, I just uh, uh, I uh--

SMITH: --I think you told me that uh, your balance wasn't quite--

133:00

TEATER: --my balance was not just what I thought it should be.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And uh you know, your help kinda dictates some of that.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: Uh, you get too much green help now. It's hard to get good help and bad help will get you hurt. And uh, I thought about that and then I just, I just didn't feel like my balance was good when I was riding.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And I never had been hurt badly and I've seen some guys pretty well bummed up that still--I don't want to get bummed up, you know. And Martin was coming back from, he was on a job out there at Mrs. uh, Weldon's out there. The Callaway Farm--

SMITH: --oh, okay--

TEATER: -- that I was telling you about.

SMITH: Right.

TEATER: And he left from out there and uh, it just seemed like kinda a good time--and uh, he came in--

SMITH: --um-hm--

134:00

TEATER: --and started working a few horses and I said, "I think I'm just going to let him take it, go with it," you know.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And I think I made the right move.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: Uh, I've been a diabetic for a long time.

SMITH: Oh, okay.

TEATER: And, you know, if, if I hadn't had that, that kinda, all that kinda factored into it you I stopped training. You know, you get hurt bad--

SMITH: --yeah--

TEATER: -- if you don't, if you, if your, you know, don't have something wrong with you like being a diabetic, then you don't know what's going to cause you to have a bad spell, but--

SMITH: --um-hm, um-hm.

TEATER: That kinda, in my thinking uh, besides losing the balance and I think about, 'What if I get hurt really bad,' you know. My diabetes gets to acting up or something like that.

SMITH: Right, right.

TEATER: And so I thought that it might be a pretty good time to, to get out, you know. But I'm, I'm not really,---------(??) you know. I go down to the barn in the mornings and thirty minutes, you know, walk 135:00out, you know, see what's going on and--

SMITH: --Yeah, I don't think you--

TEATER: --I don't stay a long time. But I enjoy it.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: And uh, and then the sales business, you know, with it. You know, I, I still meet all the people that I used to know--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: you know. It, that know me and I know them and uh, and so it works out good,--

SMITH: --yeah--

TEATER: --you know. And then, in other words, I'm still kinda in touch with the business and things like that.

SMITH: Right, right, right. No you're not, you're not out of it completely, that's for sure. Um--

TEATER: --I think one of the best things I ever did, or the hardest thing, I think. Uh, I've never been a large breeder, you know. I have two broodmares now and probably the most broodmares I ever owned at one time was maybe eight or ten.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And uh, but, I, I love breeding.

SMITH: Hmm.

TEATER: I think it's for rich people but, --(laughs)-- but I love it, 136:00you know.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And I always keep a few broodmares and I have my colts and I don't do very well sometimes and sometimes I do okay. But, since I was back here uh, we had a mare that we'd raised out of Princess Julia.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And I bought a stallion up the sales company called Show N Off Too. I bought him for a show horse.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And I brought him home and worked him and I didn't know, I liked him, you know, a pretty big horse like this and I'd, this mare was in season. And I said, I came up to the house I said, "I think I'll just breed that mare to Show N Off Too." So I bred Show N Off Too to him.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And then later the next spring I sold that horse to some people--

137:00

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --but that mare had a foal by Show N Off Too. And it turned out to be a horse called Principal.

SMITH: Hmm.

TEATER: Well, I, trained him. I had, I owned the broodmare, I owned the stud and I trained him 'til he was a three-year old, and I won the Three-year Old Five-Gaited stake --[telephone rings]-- at Louisville with him. And that was, after I did, after I won I got to thinking about that and I said, "You know, I had the stud and got the mare," said, "I've never done that before." --(both laugh)--

SMITH: Huh.

TEATER: So that's quite and accomplishment.

SMITH: Yes, that is.

TEATER: Yeah.

SMITH: Taking it all the way. Hmm. Um, we've still got, all right, we have uh, talked for a little while, but I still have a lot of things to 138:00ask you. Do you want to--

TEATER: --go ahead--

SMITH: --take a break and continue?

TEATER: Shoot. We'll go a little bit longer--

SMITH: --you wanna keep going.

TEATER: It's just three thirty.

SMITH: Okay. All right, we still got plenty of time here. We haven't talked about, well, there's two, two big things um--judging, when did you begin your judging career with?

TEATER: Well uh, I probably started my judging when I was, probably my uh, like I was twenty-five, twenty-six years old.

SMITH: That's pretty young.

TEATER: Yes, I just judged like, one night shows--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --two night shows. And, you know, it's a funny thing. Uh, it was hard to get the one night shows, two night shows for some reason. But back then, you had to judge enough shows, that people saw you 139:00judge--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --and then you had to get six people to sign for you to send them into the committee that then would say, give you a license to, to judge, you know.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: Uh, but, I don't know why it is, you know, but Walking Horses are easy to judge, for me they were.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: And the Walking Horse people liked me because they thought I knew what--I didn't know anything about Walking Horse except what, you know, you see and--

SMITH: --right--

TEATER: --and what I thought was good and what I thought was bad. And so, in fact, then when I started, there was, most of the shows were Walking--little one night shows, two night shows-- they'd be about fifty-fifty; fifty percent Walking Horses and fifty percent Saddle 140:00Horse.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: So, the shows just wanted to hire one judge. And the Walking Horse, if you hired a Saddle Horse judge uh, the Walking Horse people would grip and be mad, you know, because it, most--

SMITH: --yeah--

TEATER: --of them didn't know how to-- but, anyways, I got on this, on this uh, roll, and I was just covered up with shows that I could take, you know, because the Walking Horses people liked me.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: And, so I, I judged a lot of one night shows, two night shows. And then I got my license and then uh, I started uh, judging every, just about every place. I don't know how many.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: I judged a lot of shows.

SMITH: Did you enjoy it?

TEATER: Yes, yeah. Never liked going there--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --you know. I didn't like the idea of 'have to get ready'.

141:00

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And, you know, they require you to have, you know, you had to have pretty nice outfits on, you know.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: Uh, that kind of makes you mad and that you got to dress up every, every--you can't have, wear the same coat out.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: If you wear it out this afternoon, you can't wear it out tonight. You gotta have a nice suit ----------(??), you know. But, you get used to that and uh.

SMITH: Could you make much money at it?

TEATER: No.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: No. Uh, I really did--the one night shows you always make more money.

SMITH: Oh.

TEATER: Uh, because you'd drive to them, most of them, and you can drive home that night--

SMITH: --right--

TEATER: --you don't spend any money. So if you want to make money don-, don't judge these week long shows.

SMITH: Hmm.

TEATER: Hotel'll eat you up, you know. But they're paying a lot more now to for judging.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: When I judged it was not very good. Like uh--

142:00

SMITH: --now have you judged some of the--

TEATER: --hmm?

SMITH: Have you judged some of the major Saddlebred shows? Or did you get involved with that?

TEATER: Well, let's see. I've judged Louisville.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: Uh, I've judged Kansas City uh, Houston, Tampa uh, Shreveport, New Orleans uh, Dallas uh, I said Houston, Kansas City. I judged a, I judged up at the Canadian Roy-, Royal Show.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: Springfield, Mass., judged there. I can't think of all the places I've --(laughs)--.

SMITH: Was it mostly Saddlebred?

TEATER: All Saddlebreds, yeah.

SMITH: Okay, okay. Do you remember any particular experiences as a 143:00judge? Anything that was, might have been difficult or?

TEATER: No, it's, it's a, it's a very challenging job.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: Uh, you do it mainly uh, I think, all trainers should have to judge. Uh, because I think they make the best judges, I think. I don't think it's mandatory that you have to be a trainer to be a, a good judge.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: But I think it helps.

SMITH: Is there not a conflict there between being an active trainer and judging shows?

TEATER: As, they like to say there is.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: Uh, I had one guy came up to me and he said uh, he was, he was 144:00a, I, when I was at Rock Creek.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And uh, walked up to me and he said uh, "It's my turn, it's my daughter's turn." I looked at him--we were showing there at Rock Creek and a very good friend of mine was judging, named Sam Brannon--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --was who it was. And uh, he reached in his pocket, had five hundred dollars--

SMITH: --oh--

TEATER: --handed it to me, said, "It's my turn," like that. I, I wouldn't take it, he said, "Take, put that," and I said, "I'm not taking that. What'd you want me to do with it?" "Well," he said, "I want you to give it to that judge. Tell him it's my turn." I said, "Don't work that way." "Oh yeah," said, "I've seen it work." And I 145:00said, "You have?" I know Sam pretty well--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --and I said, "Now I'll tell you what, you can go out there and give him that five hundred," and I said, "I want to see your rear end on the, on the back sitting on the ground." I said, "You go give it to him." I said, "I'm not gonna give it to him." I said, "'Cause he'd do the same thing to me." And, you know, people have these ideas that, I'm not saying that uh, if I'm your best friend, there's two horses standing there, I'm probably going to tie you. They're both the same--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --I'm gonna lean to you. I don't think you'd get out of that.

SMITH: No.

TEATER: Uh, if you got two friends there, what do you do then? --(Smith 146:00laughs)-- Go eenie, meenie, miney, moe. --(both laugh)--

SMITH: You've probably been in that situation.

TEATER: And uh, uh, I really started off uh, doing the one nights--

SMITH: --yeah--

TEATER: -- needing money--

SMITH: --yeah--

TEATER: --you know. But then uh, when I would take the larger shows I'd strictly do it because I thought that it was, that I owed that back into the business, you know. If I'm really qualified to jud-, I should do it.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And not let an unqualified person do it.

SMITH: Were you older when you started doing it?

TEATER: No.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: I was probably, oh yeah, I was probably in my-- at Rock Creek I'd go off and judge some and then.

SMITH: Okay, so in your thirties?

TEATER: Um-hm.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: It's hard, hard to get away when you have those big public barns.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: 'Cause they want to go to this show, it's the same time as the show they want you to judge.

147:00

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: The show you get asked to, you've got forty head of horses going there to show, you know.

SMITH: Is it hard for the business to find qualified judges?

TEATER: I don't think so.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: I think that uh, there's some good thinking now, in the professional horsemens--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --that they need to take their turns and do it. There's a lot more of that going on the last I'd say ten years.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: Used to be where that they wouldn't do it. Now that their, they feel like they need to do it, which they do.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And I think it's gonna make better judging as it goes along.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: You know, one time, I'll tell you a story. Uh, I'd made all these shows, good night, we just, I don't how many shows we'd made that year. But I went to Kansas City and then I went to New York and then I 148:00would, I flew down, I had one of men to ship six horses down to uh, uh, Montgomery, Alabama.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And I flew down there, got off, showed these horses and uh, a friend of mine was, room next door to me. We got to going to dinner together and things and --

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --and uh, I said to him, I said--oh, I didn't--the, the first night I showed why, I got the worst ribbons I ever got in my life. And I said to him, I said, "That , that judge," I said, "I believe he's crooked. What's wrong with him?" This guy said, "I don't know what's wrong with him. He's ------(??)" Well, I said, "He just tied me terrible." And talked, and we, this, this guy'd carry me, yeah, he, this friend of mine, he'd--

149:00

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --he'd just carry me, make me talk a little more, you know.

SMITH: Uh-huh.

TEATER: ----------(??) "Aw," he said, "He didn't do a very good job there. He didn't, no, he didn't do a very good job there." So the next night I didn't have anything showing. So I said to my friend, I said, "We're going up in the stands and sit," and I said, "We're gonna judge and see what he's doing." --(laughs)-- We'd tie the class--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --and he'd tie the class and it'd be the same thing we had. That went, did that about three or four classes and I looked over at my friend and I said, --(clears throat)-- "Did my horses really look that bad the other night?" He said, "You know," he said, "they didn't look very good." --(both laugh)-- But we, I was for sure that guy was cheating me.

SMITH: That's right.

TEATER: So I think, you get that, you know, when you get worn out or, you know--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: you don't get, you know, you get burnt up in the barn, you know. 150:00You think you got a great horse and the son of a bucks not a great horse. He gets there and he makes a, a dummy out of you--

SMITH: --yeah--

TEATER: --real fast and, so I don't think--

SMITH: --that's how judging can help, huh--

TEATER: --I don't think there's uh, (pause) I think most of the judges try to do the right thing. It's their opinion. Sometimes I don't like their opinion.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: Uh, doesn't make them, that right, but uh, the way I feel about, and I try not to say anything about a judge when I go to a show, is that you know who's gonna judge before you go.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And if you don't like him, don't go to the show. Don't go to the show and then get mad at him.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: Don't like him, don't go to that show. Go to another horse show. And, you know, I feel like sometimes that guy was picking on me, 151:00you know, every once in a while. And it, it wasn't picking on me. If you'd just study back what was going on, the horses that were beating you, you know, you saw the reason why.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: You know, they were just a better horse, you know.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: So, but I do think so many people get training in their little world, and the 'little world' is the barn, I'm talking about--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --get down there in that barn everyday and, and you think you've got a good horse and he's not a good horse. And that's when you get mad at the judge.

SMITH: Yeah, yeah.

TEATER: And uh--

SMITH: --hmm--

TEATER: --you, you gotta let somebody else get on your horse every once in a while and get, let you stand out and see them.

SMITH: Oh, that's good. That's a good idea--

TEATER: --yeah. Lot of people don't do that.

SMITH: Yeah. Now do you still judge?

TEATER: Huh?

152:00

SMITH: Do you still judge? Do you judge any today?

TEATER: No.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: No. I don't--

SMITH: --no more, huh? Well it was uh--

TEATER: --I'd like to, but I, I don't. I just.

SMITH: Okay. Um, let's see, you were in the Hall of Fame, 1997. You've been involved uh, with the UHPA [United Professional Horsemen's Association]. You've been very involved with the American Saddle Horse Association.

TEATER: Um-hm, um-hm.

SMITH: Um, what's uh, how would you describe your involvement with these groups and why did you get involved with them? That's a big question but.

TEATER: Uh, I think I thought I could help.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: Uh, especially in the breeder's association. I really put a lot of work in there.

SMITH: Now that's the American Saddle Horse Association.

153:00

TEATER: Yes. Uh, and ideas that--when I was real young, I was on that board for a long time.

SMITH: How, about how old were you when you started working for them? Or where were you then?

TEATER: I would say I was probably about, maybe forty.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: And I was probably on there like twenty-five, twenty-six, twenty-seven years, something like that.

SMITH: That is a long time.

TEATER: And uh, and I was on there with some great people. Oh my goodness, some of the people that are just, were wonderful. They, they're great businessmen uh, great sports women uh, I don't know if that's the right word to use or not but uh, I mean, they, they loved 154:00horses, you know. They want just, you know--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --and uh, of course, I always wanted, I always felt like the more information that you can give a new buyer--now, I'm not talking about the sales company--

SMITH: um-hm--

TEATER: --it does affect the sales company.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: I'm talking about this person coming in, like you say you want to buy some nice horses--

SMITH: --hmm--

TEATER: --information. You can look up this horse and what its dam did, whether it won a class or not, stuff like that, you know.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And uh, I can remember--golly, well, I was at, I was at Rock Creek then, it was at '60, '66--'67-- Billy Tall Whittenburg (??) and 155:00I flew to New York and tried to get that first-- what we were trying to do is get information from the hor-, American Horse Show Association so that we could put them on cards and have them at the breeder's association.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: Which, they off-, they offered the service, they have it, but we had to pay for it and there wasn't that much money to, nobody thought enough of it to say, "Let's spend that much money to do it."

SMITH: Hmm.

TEATER: Um, and it, see, that was just at recognized shows, which I think would've still been great if we'd have went ahead and did that. But that all came along, that idea and today there's so much, there's a thousand times more information than there was twenty-five years ago.

156:00

SMITH: Hmm, um-hm.

TEATER: Maybe twenty years ago.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: A thousand times more, that, that is being produced by the association.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: That buyers and sellers and breeders have information that we started off working for in 1970, say--

SMITH: --um-hm, yeah, yeah--

TEATER: --be a safe figure. And that makes me feel good, you know. And uh.

SMITH: What were some of the other issues that you dealt with?

TEATER: Pardon me?

SMITH: What were some of the other issues that you were concerned about?

TEATER: Well, that, you know uh, uh, safety in our ring was one thing that I was really kinda uh, we got where that they didn't have any 157:00rules about uh, how many horses could come in a ring.

SMITH: Hmm.

TEATER: And I showed at Louisville while I was at Rock Creek with Local Talent, in the Mint Memorial Three-Gaited--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --fifty-three came in the ring.

SMITH: Whoa, that sounds dangerous.

TEATER: Well, you get people killed with that many horses in a ring.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: So I went to New York that year uh, to the uh, American Horse Show and got the first rule put in about splitting classes. And uh, --(laughs)-- those people up there, they wanted fifty, you could split it. I said, that's "No!" So I finally got it to forty, and that was the first rule that was made about you-, mandatory split.

SMITH: Okay.

158:00

TEATER: Horse show manager, mandatory, had to split the class if there was forty entries.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: Now it's anything over twenty-four.

SMITH: They have to split, oh.

TEATER: They have, must split. And in harness uh, uh, you know, I judged Louisville there. There's twenty-four fine harness amateur horses in one class. And the, of course, they saw that and the next year why they got it changed to where that it's uh, sixteen, after sixteen they split it.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: Which I think is a little bit strong; I think it could have been eighteen--

SMITH: --hmm--

TEATER: --you know. But, still its safety, it's good. And uh.

SMITH: So you had to work a lot with the um, American Horse Shows Association?

TEATER: No, not a lot--

SMITH: --not, okay--

TEATER: --but if you had rules that you need to be changed or you want, 159:00you think should be changed you, you have to kinda have to go that route, cause they're the governing factor--

SMITH: --right--

TEATER: -- of the horse shows. And most every show, whether they're a member show or not--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --will, and they're not governed even, will show by the rules of the American Horse Show Association.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: So it's important--

SMITH: --yeah--

TEATER: --whether you're a mem-, whether you go to a member show or a non-member show you; it's the same rules, as a rule.

SMITH: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you need that consistency I would think. Um, what about some of the issues that I hear a lot about? And it, maybe I hear more about it in Thoroughbred than Saddlebred, are the issues of medication and uh, and drugging, the use of steroids. Is that a, a concern in the Saddlebred world? Has that been something of an issue?

TEATER: Well, we went through some times back uh, much earlier than 160:00this, back in the late '60s and early '70s. And uh, we've overcome, I would say, probably 95% of it. And uh.

SMITH: What was that? Being drugged for, enhancement drugs

TEATER: Stimulant drugs and things. And now we have testers uh, pretty stringent rules that govern us.

SMITH: Is that a good thing?

TEATER: Absolutely. Yes. Puts everybody on the same footing.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And I don't know about these steroids, you know, uh, I've, I've tried 'em-- I tell you when I tried them, when I was at Groves up there in, in Minnesota. I tried those steroids and I, I didn't like them at all, I didn't, I didn't even like the way a horse trained on them. I 161:00don't know--

SMITH: --really--

TEATER: --maybe I'm crazy, but I, I used them, maybe, four or five months. Uh, I said, "Ben, take that stuff and throw it away. I don't want anymore of it, I don't like it." I never showed on it even.

SMITH: What was his opinion about them? ----------(??) vet?

TEATER: Well, it was for an, they say appetite--

SMITH: --yeah--

TEATER: -- and strength, strengthen them a little bit and things like that. But I, I don't know, I just didn't get along with my horses like I thought I should've ----------(??), and it might have just been a three or four month span--

SMITH: --yeah--

TEATER: --that I had and uh, you know, I didn't like it. But, you know, if it does that much as what they're saying about, and, you know, I think they're all crazy down there, these papers just.

SMITH: You talking about Big Brown?

TEATER: Yeah.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: You know, why, you know, there's other twenty horses in there taking it.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: Wonder why one of those horses didn't win the Derby--

SMITH: --right--

TEATER: -- they were taking it, if it's all that good. Which I don't 162:00think it is.

SMITH: Um-hm, um-hm.

TEATER: But uh, I guess, if you get up into, just a little bit of seconds, it might help a, a running horse, but for a horse gotta think all the time, I don't think it's good.

SMITH: Oh, okay. Okay.

TEATER: Uh, I wouldn't use it.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: I don't like it. I don't like bulk, anyway.

SMITH: Oh, okay.

TEATER: And they, they tell me they use it to bulk--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: -- horses, younger horses up, you know.

SMITH: Um-hm. You don't need that in your Saddlebred.

TEATER: No. Well, I don't, I don't know, I just don't like it and--

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: But uh, you know, its, and they're trying to say how bad, you know, to change the, the whole Derby thing--

SMITH: --yeah--

TEATER: --change the Derby the Preakness. Well, they've had if for a 163:00hundred and thirty-five years this way.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And there's only been eleven horses to win it.

SMITH: Right.

TEATER: So, what's the big deal, you know?

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATERS: There might be five horses in a row win it in, in the--

SMITH: --the next decade, yeah--

TEATER: --in the next decade.

SMITH: Yeah, yeah like--

TEATER: -- how do you know--

SMITH: -- they did in the '70s.

TEATER: Uh, I, I don't think they're gonna change everything.

SMITH: Well, there's a lot of talk.

TEATER: I do think that if, you know, I think the trainers should have some, unput, input there as to what they want and uh, what's gonna be best for their business and things uh.

SMITH: It's hard to get anybody to agree.

TEATER: UPHA, you know, is all mostly trainers.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: And uh, I think they all agree that, you know, this drugging's got to get, get out the window. We don't need that in our business, you know.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And a lot of it, about 95% of it's disappeared, you know.

164:00

SMITH: Yeah, they, they keep after it, that's for sure.

TEATER: And I think when you get--and evidently, I don't know --[telephone rings]-- anything about the Thoroughbred business, but evidently, there's some states that have already--I don't know what states but, they say there's like ten or twelve states that have already banned that stuff.

SMITH: Right, the steroids--

TEATER: --and there's ten or twelve more that are getting ready to ban it, you know.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: Uh, and if it's not good for the breed, it's a bad image, get rid of it.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: It's pretty simple. [answering machine in the background]

SMITH: Yeah, what's the point.

TEATER: You know, everybody's gonna be on the same footing.

SMITH: Right.

TEATER: Everybody's on the same footing now.

SMITH: Level playing field.

TEATER: But, it's something that's perceived by the public and other sports that's not good.

SMITH: Right.

TEATER: So, do away with it--

SMITH: --So why do you really need it, yeah.

TEATER: -- yeah. Do away with it and shut up, you know. You don't need 165:00to say anymore.

SMITH: The other group that you worked with was the UHPA. Now that was formed by the Saddlebred people, right? United Horsemen's Profession, is that right?

TEATER: The what--

SMITH: --Professional Association? UHPA, the United Horseman Professionals--

TEATER: Oh, UPHA.

SMITH: UP, oh, I'm sorry. Okay, got it backwards.

TEATER: UPHA.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: Uh, I think it's been a great thing. Um, they've started some new things that have helped the young horses--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: -- and there, consequently, that helps the breeders. And uh, they put on several horse shows, their chapters. I think there's eighteen chapters across the United States.

SMITH: Oh, okay.

TEATER: And just about every chapter has a horse show.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: They sponsor and do all the work on it and stuff like that. 166:00And I think they've been a, uh, --and used to be you'd go to a show and everybody'd, you know,--well, now what they do, they have a little meeting say, the first day of the show.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And whoever the chapter chairman is, he's the spokesman for the horsemen at the show.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: So he goes if, all right, say the ring's bad or the warm up ring's bad or--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --something, the sound system's bad or whatever. There's not thirty-two people going to the, to the manager saying, "Yea, yea, this is not right," you know. You got one person so, when he goes the manager knows that he's speaking for the group.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: So it's a lot easier transition to get things done.

SMITH: Oh, yeah.

TEATER: Uh, I think they've done a--I've been a member a long time. And 167:00I haven't been active uh, but I was active maybe for like six or seven, maybe eight years, something like that, where I was, you know, either a chapter chairman or something--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --like that, you know. And uh, uh, attended meetings regular and which I don't anymore.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: I get the newsletters and stuff like that, you, and, you know, go to uh, the uh, awards banquet--

SMITH: --yeah, yeah--

TEATER: --and things once a year. And uh, but I think they've done a good job. And I--and they've, they've exchanged a lot of ideas among themselves at their conventions and things. Which I think is really good.

SMITH: Um-hm, um-hm.

TEATER: Not, not just about how to run your business uh, but how to 168:00train a horse.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And there's a lot of kids that have got into, young people that have got in the business that I think have been better off by being members because they've--

SMITH: --okay--

TEATER: --they've learned from uh, everybody putting their thoughts into, whatever problem there might be, you know.

SMITH: Um-hm, experience.

TEATER: Uh, what, any aspect of the business--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --and uh, they have some good speakers to come as far as investment people that, you know, as simplified ways to--'cause there's, you know, there's no retirement funds. You know, you're out there on your own. And these young kids they need help, you know, and we'll have investment brokers come in and have them to give talks about, you know, like one guy said he'd, he'd take like, you know, fifty dollars a month and this is what your gonna have, you know. You 169:00don't have any retirement fund. You've got to do these things.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: And so I think it's been, a lot of good, good come out of it. Uh, there's some, uh, uh, little uh, small fighting that goes on all the time, you know, but it, it's uh, I have more positives than negatives, a lot more positives than negatives gone into it.

SMITH: There's always some--

TEATER: --I think it's done a lot of good. It gets people to thinking, especially the young kids, because, you know, if they wait 'til their forty or fifty years old it's going to be to late.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: But when they're twenty-five, twenty-six, twenty-seven years old and they just start thinking a little bit about it, their not gonna wind up in the poor house, you know.

SMITH: That's right.

TEATER: Which we do have uh, UPHA has been, they've got a thing in there for disasters and older people that get in bad shape--

170:00

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --and uh, you know, small amounts of money but, better than none, you know.

SMITH: Right. And it's recognition of the problem, too. That helps.

TEATER: Right, right. And anytime that they can do a little more, they, they do a little more, you know--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --they don't have it. Uh, so I think it's a, it's a, it's been good. I think as far as the maybe monetary wise, I think it's really good because it's, it's teach, teaching these young kids.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And every year they do it, just a little of it. It's not a big deal.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: But whoever is handling it now is doing a good job of letting those people come in and, you know--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --talk about the, the taxes, you know.

SMITH: Um-hm, yeah--

TEATER: --They need to know about that.

SMITH: Yeah, they do.

TEATER: That's their partner, they don't know it. If you make ten thousand, you know, you gotta pay him five.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: You know your partner over here.

171:00

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: And it, it just uh, I think it's helping a lot of the younger people get started well.

SMITH: Well, now that brings up an issue we had just touched on earlier was um, what's keeping the business going? Is the, is the business growing? What brings people into it today?

TEATER: Well, I think there's, what's bringing the people in-- I think we're showing more horses than we've ever shown.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: They're a different type of horse.

SMITH: Hmm.

TEATER: Uh, we got the Three-gaited Pleasure Horse, we got the Three- gaited Country Pleasure Horse and we got the Park Horse.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: And there's all divisions of that. There's all different driv-, driving divisions of that.

SMITH: Oh, my.

TEATER: It's a large nucleus. I'd say it's sixty percent of our market 172:00right now.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: Right there. I think, I know there's lots more horses that say, in the '40s, '50s, '60s. Twice as many, three times, maybe four times more show now than they did then.

SMITH: Really?

TEATER: Oh, yeah. It's just one class after another.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And uh--

SMITH: --is that a good thing--

TEATER: and this, this, nucleus of uh, of uh, what started off as the Pleasure Horse--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --and then it's the, the, you know, the Adult Pleasure Horse, the Juvenile Pleasure Horse, the driv-, the Adult Driving Horse, the Juvenile Driving Horse. Then you go down and you got another division. You got a Country Pleasure division, and you got the same divisions of that and all this. And so it just keeps going. And the Park division 173:00has got Juvenile Park, Open Park, Park Pleasure. So we got--

SMITH: --is that a good thing--

TEATER: --and these classes didn't even exist--

SMITH: --yeah--

TEATER: --well, back uh, I, I'm gonna say this, and I'm not for sure about it, I'd have to look it up for sure.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: When I was at Rock Creek, they only had at Louisville, at the Kentucky State Fair's Worlds Championship Show, I believe they only had about two classes of--and that was Saturday afternoon, the only afternoon performances, Pleasure classes--

SMITH: --and that was it--

TEATER: --and that was when I was at Rock Creek.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: Now, there's, I don't know how many Pleasure Horse classes.

SMITH: And how many days it takes--

TEATER: --and they're full--

SMITH: --yeah--

TEATER: --I mean, they're jam packed. They'll have one class and split 174:00it four ways.

SMITH: Yeah, I, I've read that when I went to the fair and uh, but is, is that good for, for Saddlebred to have that?

TEATER: Well uh, it certainly give a lot more interest because there's more people. Uh, I would say that it's, that it's good.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: 'Cause it make all horses--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --uh, elevate in their price range.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: So, it's better for the breeder.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: When you've got a horse that maybe can't trot real high but real pretty and if you had to go in those other classes he'd be uh, be a five-thousand dollar horse say, but he can go in one of these Pleasure classes being that pretty and he doesn't have to go real high. He might

175:00

be worth fifty-thousand.

SMITH: So it gives you more of a market for the horses.

TEATER: Right. There's more, so many more outlets for a horse now.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: And uh, the equitation has been great, you know. It's a, it's lessons. If I could put a hundred places across the United States--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --and staff it with competent people that could teach riding, I'd probably triple the Saddle Horse business in ten years.

SMITH: That popular.

TEATER: Nobody's out there teaching them in the field--

SMITH: --yeah--

TEATER: --all over.

SMITH: --now someone--

TEATER: --not that many people giving lessons. The people that are 176:00giving lessons are going like gang busters.

SMITH: Now someone was telling me and I can't remember which it was so I'm not gonna try to guess but, that they were concerned because so much of the industry is centered in Kentucky and--

TEATER: --yes, right--

SMITH: --and then you can't get, you can't grow it.

TEATER: Uh, well that's why you need, the--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --the uh--you go to New York City uh, Philadelphia, Boston, just go there, and get you a telephone directory.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: Look up in the Yellow Pages, 'horseback lessons'. See how many lessons you can get in English, English uh Saddle.

SMITH: Oh, okay.

TEATER: Hunt seat, there'd be a list down there that long.

SMITH: Oh.

TEATER: You can go get hunt seat lessons.

SMITH: Huh, okay.

TEATER: You get English se-, seat, see how many you get. You won't 177:00find one.

SMITH: That's interesting, okay. Hmm.

TEATER: It'd be, it'd be pretty sparse.

SMITH: So what do you think are the biggest challenges facing Saddlebred people today? Particularly trainers and breeders.

TEATER: Well, I think the, I think open spaces uh.

SMITH: Oh. (pause)

TEATER: They face a lot of challenges. The biggest ones they are hard to come by. --(laughs)-- But, it seems like that people that aren't in Kentucky are doing pretty well.

SMITH: Oh, really. Okay.

TEATER: That's why I'd like to see it spread more, you know. [telephone rings]

[Pause in recording.]

178:00

TEATER: Uh.

SMITH: Yeah, we'll, we'll end up here, a couple more minutes. I just have a few more questions. Um, well, these, these are kinda like 'end of interview' questions. But we can, when you get the interviews and you think of some other stories that you want to share, I can always come back.

TEATER: Okay.

SMITH: When you look back on your career, what have you enjoyed the most about working with horses? What part of working with them has meant the most to you.

TEATER: Well, I think the young horses are so interesting, because they're like a, a young kid learning.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And uh, then, then after that it's uh, more having a correct 179:00routine for them. Uh, there's a lot of trial and error in that when they're starting uh, to, to learn.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And then you go through that trial and error period, and that's really interesting to me, you know, and uh, what comes out, you know uh, your product.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: Usually that first year you can, pretty well got your finger on them, you know.

SMITH: Um-hm.

TEATER: And then uh, I like that part, whole lot.

SMITH: Seeing what you're able to do--

TEATER: --now I like the aged horses, or finished horses you might say. Uh, uh, I mean, they, they were like people, you know, to you. You 180:00know, you knew everything about them and, knew their habits and uh, they, you know, little colts, you don't know what they're gonna do, what they're thinking about and you gotta kinda, you know, program 'em a little bit, and sometimes they program pretty good and you're okay, you know.

SMITH: --(laughs)-- Yeah.

TEATER: Sometimes they don't program.

SMITH: --(laughs)-- No. Do you have, I mean, I know you known so many great horses ,but do you have a favorite horse that you trained?

TEATER: Well, I had some awfully nice horses. I, I had a lot of horses that I haven't told you about that I really liked. More than just really liked, I liked them a lot and.

SMITH: Like who?

TEATER: Well uh, (pause) well, Flight Time was a great--

181:00

SMITH: --okay-

TEATER: --I really enjoyed him.

SMITH: No, we hadn't talked about him.

TEATER: I broke Lover's Sen- Sensation when she was a baby colt, I mean, when she was, I showed her as a baby colt in hand.

SMITH: Oh, okay.

TEATER: And then I broke her to, as a, when she came in the barn as a two-year old. Smartest horse I ever trained, probably. There wasn't anything she didn't, that I did to her that she didn't agree with. And that's got to be a record, you know.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: Uh, I thought Flight Time was the strongest horse I ever rode.

SMITH: Okay, now what did he win?

TEATER: Pardon me?

SMITH: What was his record?

TEATER: Well, he won the Three-year Old Gaited Stake at Louisville and then his legs went bad and uh, he turned out to be a, quite a good 182:00breeding horse. And my brother and I wound up with him. Uh, when, we bought him out of the Dodge dis-, dispersal.

SMITH: Oh, okay.

TEATER: And we had him as a stallion for, I don't know, about fifteen, fifteen years and he was one of the leading breeding stallions. He sired a World's Champion, Cora's Time.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: And uh, so we were, we were really pleased with him as a breeding horse. But I think if he would have stayed sound--his, he had some tendons, not his tendons, his feet were tender.

SMITH: Hmm.

TEATER: I never understood that. He had a great big round pretty foot, you know,--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: -- and didn't look like, but his feet were tender. And uh, and his ankles might have been just not exactly what you'd--something was wrong with him there. He never was right after his three-year-old 183:00year. But he was the strongest horse I ever rode. Uh, he was just unbelievable strong. And turned out to be a good breeding stallion and uh.

SMITH: Uh, this might not have been your horse, but I have written down, Perfect Timing? [telephone rings]

TEATER: Yes.

SMITH: Was that your horse?

TEATER: Yes. I had him at Dodges there the second time--

SMITH: --okay--

TEATER: --I was there.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: I won the Two-Year-Old Gaited Stake with him at Louisville.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: He was a nice horse. Uh, not a great horse, but a nice horse, you know. [answering machine in background]

SMITH: Any other horses come to mind? We have Sea of Secrets, Belle, Belle Elegant, Lover's Sensation uh, Flight Time--you've mentioned a 184:00few others that I haven't written down.

TEATER: Um-hm. ------------(??) I really loved uh, Sultan's Supremacy.

SMITH: Oh, okay. Yeah.

TEATER: She won the, the uh, Three-Gaited Amateur with uh, when I was at Groves. She was one of my favorites. And then I liked uh, a horse called Seymour's Southern Aire.

SMITH: Oh, okay. You mentioned him last time.

TEATER: He was really nice. Yeah. And uh, --(pause)-- there was a lot of nice horses there. I really liked Popular Time. I didn't have him very long. But uh, Mary Gaylord --[telephone rings]--bought Popular Time and they brought and, and he, he won the World's Championship a couple of times. I sold him as a two-year old.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: In the dispersal, and he was very, he was, --why, I showed him 185:00as a two-year old and won with him--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: --at Louisville. And then I sold him as a, I guess he was, he was a coming three-year old when I sold him.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: Coming three-year old at the July sale of uh--

SMITH: --okay--

TEATER: --of uh--

SMITH: Tattersalls?

TEATER: Dodges.

SMITH: Oh, Dodges, okay. Okay.

TEATER: Dodges dispersal.

SMITH: Dispersal, okay.

TEATER: And he was an excellent horse. Just, you wouldn't want a nicer horse and he went on and did well uh, and won all over the country, you know.

SMITH: Hmm. You've had a lot of great moments in the ring and uh, and success. Is there anything, one moment that stands out that was particularly special?

TEATER: Well, when you win that Five-Gaited Stakes down there is awfully 186:00hard and it's uh, quite a thrill.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: I thought I was thrilled uh, with Sea of Secrets and uh, but I think I was more thrilled probably with uh, Belle. She was such a sweetheart. You know, she would just--

SMITH: --yeah--

TEATER: --blow your mind, you know. Just to be around her, she'd just, you just couldn't believe it, you know.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: You, you knew you were around something different all the time. When you were around her, you was around something different. I don't care if you just walked in her stall, it was different. She was--I used to always smoke. I smoked continuously,--

SMITH: --oh--

TEATER: --you know. And uh, I'd light up--I'd walk up to her stall and open the door and I'd light, course I lighting cigarettes all the time, you know. I'd strike my lighter and light and she, she, just like--

SMITH: -- she didn't like--

TEATER: --(laughs)-- he end of the world 's coming and what are we doing 187:00and she's just stand there and just shake and look at you. She was just something different, you know.

SMITH: Aw. A nice horse though?

TEATER: Oh, yeah, wonderful. Try every time for you. I showed her a lot too.

SMITH: Hmm. Hmm.

TEATER: Showed her more than she should have been shown probably. But they liked to show, those people did.

SMITH: The Groves?

TEATER: Yeah. Show a lot of times.

SMITH: --(laughs)--Kept you busy. All right, last question. And you, you may have already answered it in some of these others, but uh, is there one uh, thing that you're particualrly proud of, an accomplishment that you're most proud of--

TEATER: --hmm--

SMITH: -- in all your years with horses? --(Teater laughs)-- I know you've had several, that's why it's a hard question.

TEATER: Yeah.

SMITH: But sometimes something sticks out. (pause) Can't think of anything?

TEATER: Ah, you're talking about the horses.

188:00

SMITH: Yeah, well, it doesn't have to be about the horses.

TEATER: --(laughs)--Well, I don't know. I'm proud of the horses that I had that were good and I was proud to be around the nice horses that were good. And uh, just, I don't know. There's too many things to think about that to pick out one that I really--

SMITH: --yeah--

TEATER: --I enjoyed it all. I really did. I enjoyed my, enjoyed working. Uh, training horses I enjoyed immensely. I enjoyed the people a lot. And I enjoy putting the sales company on uh, I enjoyed judging tremendously. Uh, I like most everything. I like, I like 189:00my broodmares.

SMITH: There is one thing you'd said before I left and I didn't know if it was a joke or not, but that, for you to tell me a story about your band of broodmares.

TEATER: A band of broodmares?

SMITH: Uh-huh, or something about your broodmares.

TEATER: I, I'd, I've never had very many.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: Yeah.

SMITH: Okay.

TEATER: I never kept very many and most of the time I kept them to sell.

SMITH: Oh, okay.

TEATER: And uh, but I like, I just like to have those little babies. And it's just that--I know why people buy broodmares because they buy them for the same reason I do. I just like them.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: And uh, sometimes they're not the most economical thing that you should do but uh, and sometimes it can work out very profitable, but not too many. But I still do it--

SMITH: --yeah--

TEATER: --and I like it and I spend a bundle of money. --(laughs)-- 190:00Going to get this one acupunctured tomorrow. --(both laugh)-- Spend three or four hundred dollars, you know.

SMITH: Yeah, yeah.

TEATER: And that just goes on after all, you know.

SMITH: Yeah, they are expensive.

TEATER: Which we, we'd decided, I've always been against embryos. I voted against it in our breed and in--

SMITH: --the uh, artificial insemination--

TEATER: -- was very adamant, you know--

SMITH: --you mean?

TEATER: Well that, and then, you know, they, they take the embryos out and send them--

SMITH: --right--

TEATER: --and put them in a surrogate mare and I was against all that. I was only one of eighteen people on our board that voted not to have any of it. And I fought very hard and lost. So this year--that's been several years ago, twenty--fifteen, twenty years ago. And uh, so I tried embryo on my good mare. Well, I guess it's my good mare. Two of 191:00them, both of 'em good mares. So, but on this one mare I thought, 'I'm just going to get embryo.' Here all these people get the embryo-- why I spend so much money. I tried twice; I don't know how much it was, it must have been around four thousand dollars just for the services to get it done. I said--and I didn't get any. --(both laugh)-- Didn't get, I said --don't want anymore to do with that.

SMITH: That's a pretty high price, yeah.

TEATER: Well yeah. I gave a thousand dollars out there to the, you know--

SMITH: --yeah--

TEATER: --you got to give them a thousand dollars, then if the mare gets in foal, you know, the embryo takes--

SMITH: --um-hm--

TEATER: -- then you got to pay them another twelve hundred. Then, you gotta ship them; cost you another five hundred to get them here. Then you gotta ship them back, takes another five hundred.

SMITH: Hmm.

TEATER: I said, "I don't believe that's for me anymore," I just said, 192:00"No more tries."

SMITH: --(laughing)-- Trial and error, you learned, right?

TEATER: Well, you just go over here to uh, Rood and Riddle.

SMITH: Yeah.

TEATER: You know, they're Jesse James. --(Smith laughs)-- And uh, they're nice people, they're just --------(??)

SMITH: It's expensive. Yeah.

TEATER: Jesse James, I call them. They just steal, they got a gun and they just take it away from you. --(both laugh)-- But they're, they're good people, but man, they charge.

SMITH: Yeah, yeah, science is expensive. That's what I've learned from all that. Well, we have talked for over three hours so we should probably end for the day--

TEATER: --yeah, my eyes are starting to get tired.

SMITH: Getting tired? Okay. And I'll hit stop and we'll--thank you so much for spending this much time with me.

[End of interview.]

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