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SMITH: This is Kim Lady Smith. It is March 15--

CHANDLER: --is it? (both laugh)

SMITH: I think so. It's either March 14th or 15th.

CHANDLER: I think it's the 14th, I, I'm not sure.

SMITH: Okay and today I am interviewing Alice Chandler at Mill Ridge Farm in Lexington, Kentucky. This is for the University of Kentucky Horse Industry in Kentucky Oral History Project. Ms. Chandler, if we can start by you telling me your full name and when and where you were born.

CHANDLER: My name is Alice Headley Chandler and I was born on January 15, 1926.

SMITH: 26, okay.

CHANDLER: 81 I am.

SMITH: Something I read had had you down as 28, so--

CHANDLER: (laughs) That's my sister.

SMITH: Oh, okay, okay (Chandler laughs). Alright, now you were born 1:00here in Fayette County?

CHANDLER: I was born in St. Joseph's Hospital over on Third Street and in Fayette County, yes. I'm a, happy, proud to be a Kentuckian--

SMITH: --and a resident of Fayette County most of your life--

CHANDLER: --definitely, all my life--

SMITH: --okay.

CHANDLER: Except for a few years when I went to Texas.

SMITH: Okay, we'll get to that I'm sure. Well let's start off talking a little bit about, about your parents, your father--

CHANDLER: My father was a tremendous man. He was a rounded fellow, he was a horseman, a farmer, cared about the land, and it was just really fun to, to grow up with him.

SMITH: Now did he, course his name is Hal Price Headley. Did his father 2:00have, were they in the horse business; what was the family business?

CHANDLER: The family business was farming. And uh, um, my father well I think we'd been raising horses for a long time. Probably since the 1850s--

SMITH: --oh--

CHANDLER: --a good while and I don't really have all the history on it. But in just going to the cemetery and, and trying to put it all together; it's, we, we were doing this for a while before, before daddy got into it.

SMITH: Now, the land was Beaumont Farm, is that correct?

CHANDLER: Daddy was the one that, that got Beaumont Farm. He ended up uh-- When I was young, he owned Picadome Golf Course and he owned the 3:00land that is now the St. Joseph's office area. It was called the Shouse Farm and--then there was a gap and then I was born where Sullivan College is now. I wasn't born there, but I was, grew up there.

SMITH: Okay.

CHANDLER: Neat house there and when he died, the house was sold and they eventually tore it down. David Trapp and his partner Ray Pearson bought it and they, the uh, tore it down and, and sold it and Sullivan College got built.

SMITH: Okay.

CHANDLER: But that's where I grew up and all of that land down the Harrodsburg Road was Beaumont Farm, away from town, away from town.

SMITH: Did I read that it was like 1,000 acres or more?

4:00

CHANDLER: It was 4, 4,000--

SMITH: --4,000, okay--

CHANDLER: --4,000 acres, yeah. I mean he kept adding onto it. He was a land freak, but he was careful about what he bought. I mean it had to be land that could raise horses and tobacco and cattle and that's what he did.

SMITH: Okay, so that was what the farm's income was based on, tobacco, cattle, and--

CHANDLER: --horses.

SMITH: Thoroughbreds?

CHANDLER: Yeah, yeah, always Thoroughbreds. And I think he maxed out with about 40 broodmares. That's about as many as he had at one time. And the only sale at that point was Saratoga.

SMITH: Okay.

CHANDLER: And he did not sell. His, his thing was not, not selling horses, he, he raced--Then he had some good stallions, Pharamond II, Menow, when I was growing up, you know good, good stallions.

SMITH: Okay.

5:00

CHANDLER: They, they lived over there next door to Suli-, where Sullivan College is now.

SMITH: Alright. Now did he, well let me go back for a minute. What can you tell me about his parents?

CHANDLER: I don't really know too much about his parents. I do know that uh, his father had a stroke uh, when he was at Princeton.

SMITH: Ooh.

CHANDLER: And he had to come home and so he, he only did Princeton probably for two years. And then he came home and his father died. He came home and his father got well and then I think he had another stroke and, and maybe died. But daddy was married twice, my father, and we'll get into that, I mean. -- But that's where daddy really 6:00started to run the farm was when his father could no longer do it.

SMITH: Now was he an only child? Your father?

CHANDLER: My father?

SMITH: Um-hm.

CHANDLER: Um, now come on Alice, you're supposed to remember this. (both laugh) God, you know, I can't remember.

SMITH: Okay, that's alright. It'll come to you at some point--

CHANDLER: --it'll come to me, it'll come to me--

SMITH: --in this. So, he inherited--

CHANDLER: --no, George Headley. The Headley-Whitney Museum.

SMITH: Okay.

CHANDLER: That was, that was his brother. And he had a sister named Alma Dewald.

SMITH: Okay.

CHANDLER: Alma Dewald; Alma was Alma Headley and she, she married a, a Dutch sugar importer named Christian Dewald and, do you know where this big white house is over here, John Y. Brown's, was the last one that lived in it.

SMITH: Oh, okay, yes.

CHANDLER: Well she lived there all my life mostly.

7:00

SMITH: Really?

CHANDLER: I mean all of her life. She lived in that house. Her husband dropped dead one morning when they hadn't been married very long; maybe 1929 or something like that. And she continued to live there for a good while. She finally moved to town and got an apartment, but she got a house, but she lived there for a long time.

SMITH: Okay and what about George Headley? Was he involved with horses at all?

CHANDLER: No, he uh, he was a farmer I think.

SMITH: Okay, well a lot of people were then.

CHANDLER: Yeah, and uh, he had uh, Duval, his second son, ended up training for my father and he was good, Duval Headley.

SMITH: Yes I've read about him.

CHANDLER: You've heard of him--

SMITH: --Um-hm.

CHANDLER: He trained Menow and he was, he was good, he was good.

SMITH: Okay, now you said your father uh, was interested primarily in 8:00racing and raising horses to race. Now did he also breed and sell at all, or--

CHANDLER: --no, um, what happened with the Keeneland sales was, and this must have been, I'm not sure, 1936 or something like that--

SMITH: --Um-hm.

CHANDLER: --no, wait a minute. The reason that--He helped promote the Saratoga sale way back in the beginning of Saratoga, maybe 1917, 1918, somewhere like that.

SMITH: Okay.

CHANDLER: But he wasn't an active seller and then uh, when the Keeneland sales, when the Saratoga sales got stopped because of the gas rationing 9:00and we couldn't get there, that's when the Keeneland sales started. That's when we started, he started the Keeneland sales. And that's when, but that's, he wasn't a seller. This was, this was, his involvement with Keeneland, this was the logical thing to do.

SMITH: Okay um, in terms of family income, was the farm the sole source of income for the family? Okay.

CHANDLER: Pretty much I think. He was involved in other things. I mean he sat on the bank board and stuff like that, but uh, as far as I know, it was pretty much the only source of income.

SMITH: Did he have, um, now the farm was of course tobacco, cattle, and horses; were horses his passion? (Chandler nods) Okay.

CHANDLER: But I used to ride, I mean my childhood was incredible because 10:00he, by the time my sister was born, I think he had just about given up on having a son.

SMITH: Oh.

CHANDLER: And I was the one, I was, I was the son and we used to, I mean-- He used to sort his own cattle and I used to go with him on my pony and all that, all that good stuff.

SMITH: Okay, you were telling me, of course, he was married twice. So--

CHANDLER: --first wife died of pneumonia. They had three daughters.

SMITH: Okay.

CHANDLER: Martha Headley Johnston, Alma Headley Haggin, Louie Haggin's wife and Adele who was on the Athenia when uh, the Germans sunk it--

SMITH: --ooh--

CHANDLER: --I think the Germans sunk it in 1941. She, she was in the 11:00last life boat.

SMITH: Oh my--

CHANDLER: And that was a real sweat.

SMITH: So when did he and your mother get married?

CHANDLER: They got married in 1926.

SMITH: Okay.

CHANDLER: And uh, his first wife died of pneumonia, probably 1922, excuse me, he didn't, they got, they got married in 1924, I was born in 1926.

SMITH: Okay, I know dates get confusing. That's alright. Um, what was your mother's name?

CHANDLER: Genevieve Molloy.

SMITH: Okay.

CHANDLER: Good old Irish family.

SMITH: Oh.

CHANDLER: And my great, great, great uncle is Daniel Boone.

SMITH: Really?

CHANDLER: Um-hm.

SMITH: Through your mother's side.

CHANDLER: My mother's side, yes.

SMITH: Oh my.

CHANDLER: It was Mulligan, you remember, you've heard of James Hillary Mulligan--

SMITH: --yes--

CHANDLER: --that house over there on, on the campus, that Lee Todd and 12:00his wife live in. That was James Hillary Mulligan's house.

SMITH: Okay.

CHANDLER: And he was my something, grandfather--(both laugh)

SMITH: --you were related. How did your parents meet, do you know? --(Chandler nods no)-- No? Hadn't heard that story?

CHANDLER: I don't know.

SMITH: Okay, now between the youngest child from his first marriage and you, what kind of age difference was there? Were you significantly younger?

CHANDLER: Um, Alma Haggin, let's see. The first child would be, would have been a foal of 1912.

SMITH: Okay.

CHANDLER: And that was Martha Headley Johnston. And the second one was, is Alma Haggin and she's still alive, she's 95.

SMITH: Oh.

CHANDLER: And she lives in that beautiful house down on the Shannon Run 13:00Road. And uh, she married Louie Haggin and her, their son is the uh, he's probably the president of Keeneland at the moment.

SMITH: Okay.

CHANDLER: Louie Lee, Louie Lee Haggin, III

SMITH: Okay, sort out all those connections here. (Chandler --laughs) Okay, so where they still at home when you were born?

CHANDLER: Oh yeah.

SMITH: Okay.

CHANDLER: Oh yeah. So there were, there were three of the older girls, then there was me, and there was my sister, Patricia. And then we waited, um, let's see Patricia was born in 1928, Price was born in 14:001937. Finally had a son.

SMITH: Oh, my. Okay. I see, you were saying that your father was beginning to think he would only have girls and-- Did you just have a natural love for, for the horses and the land?

CHANDLER: Yes, it must have been natural because it came very early. They found me sleeping with my pony when I was two and a half --

SMITH: --oh my. Let's talk about your childhood. From what I've read in the interview that you have done with, that's in "Women in Racing," it sounds like you had some wonderful experiences as a child on the farm. That your, your dad must have been very supportive of you being a part of the farm.

CHANDLER: He, he, he never said don't do it cause you might get hurt. He never said that and I tried it all. I mean well I'm sure that-- I 15:00mean I ended up shooting craps with everybody.

SMITH: Yeah I read that.

CHANDLER: I won Smokey Saunders' car and $600--

SMITH: --oh my.

CHANDLER: I made something like 13 straight passes and went home at lunch and bragged. We, we used to shoot craps up on the, in-- Where the Breeders' Cup now is, there was a training barn and we used to shoot craps on the floor of the tack room in there.

SMITH: Oh was this like a lunch time ritual?

CHANDLER: Oh yeah, lunch time thing and from 12:00 to 1:00 and I went home after lunch and bragged to daddy that I had won Smokey's car and $600 and he made me give it back, of course.

SMITH: Of course.

CHANDLER: Smokey Saunders won the Derby on Omaha.

SMITH: Okay.

CHANDLER: He was a great race rider. But uh, I mean I went with daddy as much as I could because I loved doing all the things he loved to 16:00do. I mean herding cattle and breaking yearlings, and all that kind of stuff. And uh, checking on the tobacco and--

SMITH: --Um-hm--

CHANDLER: --and just, I just, I was with him as much as I could be.

SMITH: How much of that was because you enjoyed doing it and how much of it was you wanted to be with your dad?

CHANDLER: Probably 50, 50. I was, it was easy to do with him. And I loved horses.

SMITH: Um-hm.

CHANDLER: And I got my own pony when I was four, named Pal and then the sad thing that came was that my mother decided that I had to have an education.

SMITH: Wise woman. (laughs)

CHANDLER: Wise woman. And I went to the Sacred Heart Convent in 17:00Cincinnati for the first step when I was 12.

SMITH: Now where had you gone to school in Fayette County before that?

CHANDLER: University Training School. It's the one that's right across from that, um, it's right across from UK but it's, it's over there by itself, on the corner of Upper and whatever that little street is.

SMITH: Okay.

CHANDLER: Went there. Then went to Cincinnati to the convent. Blew my parents' minds because on, just before Christmas that year that I went there, I got to be a Catholic.

SMITH: Oh.

18:00

CHANDLER: Course that was a Catholic convent. I was, I was, I mean I was just a sitting duck because I was the only there that, that wasn't. So they got me. (laughs --Smith) And it was alright because my mother's family was all Catholic so I mean most Irish are.

SMITH: That's right.

CHANDLER: So that worked out okay.

SMITH: But what had you been raised previously?

CHANDLER: I, I went to the Catholic Church.

SMITH: Okay.

CHANDLER: Ed Fallon's father was my father's farm manager, Harold Fallon. And Ed is retired now, but he was one of the great vets and they're all Catholics and I used to go to church on Sunday with Harold Fallon, when I was little.

SMITH: Um, when you were going to school here, is that pretty much the same regular schedule of September through June, so um, during those times when you get off from school, did you go out and work on the, 19:00play or work, a little bit of both on the farm? And then the summers were spent--

CHANDLER: --on the farm.

SMITH: -okay--

CHANDLER: --on the farm.

SMITH: Did you have friends that enjoyed the same things you did? No?

CHANDLER: I didn't have any friends. I mean I just, all I wanted to do was go to school because I had to go to school and get the hell out of there because I wanted to get back and do what I loved to do. I really didn't-- Oh I had, I mean I used to, Pat Griffin and a couple of gals that were in the same class with me, I mean I used to go spend the night with them you know every once in a while, stuff like that. But it was, it was a daddy / farm thing.

SMITH: Okay. What were some of the things, that's now-- '36 was when Keeneland was being built and you spent a lot of time there as a child.

CHANDLER: Can you imagine riding a pony from here down there where I 20:00told you the house was-- Can you imagine riding a pony from, from there to Keeneland now?

SMITH: No.

CHANDLER: On the Versailles road?

SMITH: No.

CHANDLER: Well I can't either and I did. I did.

SMITH: How much time did you spend there?

CHANDLER: As much as I could.

SMITH: Was your father there almost every day?

CHANDLER: He was. He was.

SMITH: I think I read that you said you would get there at 4:00 in the morning.

CHANDLER: We did. We'd go down there and have breakfast.

SMITH: Okay.

CHANDLER: And then uh, we did and he died there.

SMITH: Yes, I read that.

CHANDLER: Yeah. And, but, I mean just, I mean I remember opening day and it was just, you know, it was just, you know, a tremendous place. It is. It's the best.

21:00

SMITH: Yes.

CHANDLER: I've been to a lot of race tracks around the world and there ain't no place like it.

SMITH: It is a beautiful, beautiful spot.

CHANDLER: It is. But uh,

SMITH: What was opening day like? What do you remember about it?

CHANDLER: Yeah, I'm going to tell you something that we can't, we're going to forget. Somebody pinched my bottom going up the stairs the first day.

SMITH: No!

CHANDLER: A 10-year old girl, can you imagine that?

SMITH: humph. Did you tell your dad?

CHANDLER: No. (both laugh)

SMITH: Did your whole family go?

CHANDLER: Oh yeah, oh yeah, they did.

SMITH: Did your mother share any of your father's love of horses and racing?

CHANDLER: I think she would've liked to have. I, I used to hunt at the Iroquois Hunt and she hunted with me a couple of times, but daddy's was just so overpowering and all encompassing that-- I mean, I think 22:00anything else, she certainly was fond of horses, but she never was what I would call a hands on horse person because you know, she was raising kids and doing all that--

SMITH: --Um-hm.

CHANDLER: We had a nice yard and a garden and--

SMITH: --Um-hm--

CHANDLER: --you know.

SMITH: She took care of the family and the home?

CHANDLER: Yes.

SMITH: Okay.

CHANDLER: Yeah, yeah. She did.

SMITH: How about your siblings, were they interested in horses?

CHANDLER: Not really.

SMITH: Okay, how about just racing? Did they have an interest in that?

CHANDLER: Oh they, yeah, I mean you know, he used to take us all to the races. My brother lives, are you familiar with Parkers Mill Road? You know where that concrete--

SMITH: Yes.

CHANDLER: You know where the concrete fence is?

SMITH: I'm not sure.

CHANDLER: Alright. Well, daddy as you know owned a lot of that land 23:00and he was a concrete freak because everything he did, he wanted it to last. So concrete was much better than wood. Anyway, he ended up pouring a concrete fence and it's still sitting there today.

SMITH: Oh, I'll be sure to notice it.

CHANDLER: Look at it. And my brother lives in a house that was built in 1790 something. It's a little red brick house that is on that farm that was part of Beaumont.

SMITH: Okay.

CHANDLER: But when Menow ran the Derby, I was, the picture out there, I mean my sister and I went and that was the year Price was born and pretty much.

SMITH: Now was that your dad's horse?

CHANDLER: Um-hm.

SMITH: Okay, that's a thrill.

CHANDLER: He led all the way and uh, finished fourth.

SMITH: Oh.

CHANDLER: We tried 13 times to win the Derby; he couldn't do it.

SMITH: Oh.

CHANDLER: We, he couldn't do it.

SMITH: What kind of racing success did he have over the years?

24:00

CHANDLER: Good, good success. A lot of good fillies.

SMITH: Oh.

CHANDLER: Yeah, a lot of good fillies.

SMITH: Who did he have working for him on the farm that you could remember, trainers, or--

CHANDLER: Well when he died, there were four men that were still working for him. And I took them with me.

SMITH: Okay.

CHANDLER: When I started Mill Ridge.

SMITH: Who were they?

CHANDLER: Henry Jackson, Gene Burgin, Marvin Hardin, and Joe Bates. And Joe Bates was, he lived the longest and stayed with me until he, he died which was about eight years ago.

SMITH: Ah, not very long.

CHANDLER: Long time.

SMITH: Yes. I imagine there's some stories there too.

CHANDLER: Oh yeah. (Smith laughs)

SMITH: Who did--when you were on the farm as a child, was there anyone 25:00in particular that, any of the workers that you were particularly close to or who watched out for you more than the others?

CHANDLER: Just all of them. Yeah.

SMITH: When you say all of them, what kind of employee pool, or workforce?

CHANDLER: That was in the days when there were colored men that worked and colored men don't work anymore. I've got one colored man on this whole farm out of maybe 60 people.

SMITH: Hmm. But in your, during your childhood, it was the opposite?

CHANDLER: Just absolutely. White men were in the minority.

SMITH: Hmm.

CHANDLER: An uh, I mean I, I just, except for the men on the farm that were not involved with the horses. I mean the men that stripped the tobacco and did all that kind of stuff, who I never really got to know; I mean all the guys that were involved with the horses were, were my 26:00friends.

SMITH: Okay.

CHANDLER: Yeah.

SMITH: Did they encourage your love of horses?

CHANDLER: They let me do anything I wanted to do. I tried it all.

SMITH: What does that mean. Okay, I know you had your pony that you rode quite a bit but--

CHANDLER: We used to sneak onto yearlings before they got broken and stuff like that.

SMITH: A little dangerous, isn't it?

CHANDLER: A little dangerous and I ended up showing at the junior yearling horse show.

SMITH: Oh, okay--

CHANDLER: --the hunter classes and Tommy Rankin, who was Fred Rankin's son who lived in, after Alma Dewald's husband died, she moved to town and the Rankins bought this, her house.

SMITH: Okay.

CHANDLER: And they, Tommy Rankin was uh, two years younger than I and 27:00we used to spend a lot of time riding, you know, the farm and playing together and everything.

SMITH: Yeah, you did have a friend that you did things with.

CHANDLER: Yes, yeah.

SMITH: So you showed in a hunter class. Did you maintain an interest in that over the years?

CHANDLER: Oh yeah. I, but I mean, you know when time came to go away to boarding school, it was over cause you couldn't, you really just, I mean for the time that you had in the summer, the two months that you had, there wasn't a lot you could do.

SMITH: Right.

CHANDLER: Like all the hunting, the serious hunting, the Iroquois Hunt was in the wintertime.

SMITH: Okay.

CHANDLER: But I did, I did show. I've got, I've got some pictures of, of jumping and stuff--

SMITH: Oh, I'd like to see that. I'm going to take you back to Keeneland just for a few minutes here. When you said you went with your dad and you basically spent the day with him, what were you doing?

CHANDLER: Well we were being sure that everything worked in the kitchen 28:00(laughs --Smith) for one thing, and I mean, financing was so short in those days--

SMITH: --yes, yes--

CHANDLER: --that we were, and we didn't have, I mean we were eating soft boiled eggs out of water glasses because we really didn't, hadn't gotten the, the kitchen organized. So we got the kitchen organized, but I mean he was, he was building, supervising the building, I mean the building of the racetrack that he had laid out.

SMITH: And you were just with him while he was doing that.

CHANDLER: And that's where he died.

SMITH: Yes, yes we'll get to that story cause I know that that's in so many ways, he gave so much to Keeneland and, and how did he feel? I mean he had to, during the Depression, it had to be just a tremendous effort to get that--

CHANDLER: --it was--

SMITH: --operational.

CHANDLER: It was. His friend, Louie Beard, was the one that, to his 29:00credit, went out and traveled and sold memberships in Keeneland to people that he knew and that's what really financed, helped finance the track. And daddy didn't do any of that, I mean he was hands on, being sure that all, all the stuff went in the right place. But Louie, but Louie was the one that really raised the money and they were a good team. Louie was uh, farm manager of Greentree. Greentree Farm.

SMITH: Right, Mr. Bassett was telling me that.

CHANDLER: Yeah that's, and he's the one that raised the money.

SMITH: Okay, but your dad oversaw the work, getting it constructed. Did he enjoy that?

CHANDLER: Oh yeah, loved it. I mean building a racetrack, yeah, it was fun-- (both laugh) It was fun. He loved it.

SMITH: And how about you, did you, I mean you were pretty young at that 30:00point, so it was just being with your dad?

CHANDLER: Yeah, I just enjoyed being with him and as I said, I mean I could ride my pony down Versailles Road to Keeneland and that um, that was very, a very normal thing. There wasn't any traffic in those days, much.

SMITH: No, no this would have been about 35, 34 or 35.

CHANDLER: Yeah, it would've.

SMITH: So after Keeneland opened, how much time did you spend there?

CHANDLER: You know I really don't remember um, but I think quite a bit. That was about the time that my mom decided I need to go--

SMITH: Go away?

CHANDLER: Yeah.

SMITH: Okay.

CHANDLER: And that's when I, yeah--

SMITH: So your mother decided that you needed a different kind of education. Now had your older sisters gone to away to school?

31:00

CHANDLER: Yeah, they, I don't know what Martha did. Martha got married when she was quite young. I don't remember her going away, but Alma went to Ethel Walker's up in Simsbury, Connecticut where I ended up going.

SMITH: Okay.

CHANDLER: She went there before I did and Adele, I think it was Dudley, they went here in town to Dudley's and um, I don't remember, I don't remember whether Adele, Adele graduated from UK or not, I think she did.

SMITH: Oh, okay.

CHANDLER: Yeah.

SMITH: So how did you feel about being sent away to school?

CHANDLER: Hated it. (laughs --Chandler) Hated it, I did.

32:00

SMITH: Well now you went to Cincinnati to the convent school, quite a different experience, I'm sure. What do you remember about those days? Was the ed--

CHANDLER: It was, it was just, well I couldn't have my pony, and it was so, so strict and I hated it and I only stayed for one year.

SMITH: What was the, what was, you lived basically in the convent?

CHANDLER: Um-hm.

SMITH: Where there, how many other girls were there about your age?

CHANDLER: Not that many; it was a, it was a lot of kids from Cincinnati and, you know, in, in that area went there. But the ones that were, had to drive, were not that many.

SMITH: Okay, okay. Did they have you do, I mean it was a boarding 33:00school, I know Mr. Bassett talked about where he went, they had lots of chores to do, did they give you chores?

CHANDLER: Yeah, but I can't remember the chores. I remember really learning to read and write, I mean these nuns were just sticklers for--

SMITH: --Um-hm--

CHANDLER: --your, your, your writing and you know, learning how to do all the basic stuff.

SMITH: Was it a good education?

CHANDLER: It was a good education. It was.

SMITH: But you still (laughs) hated it.

CHANDLER: I still hated it because I missed the horses and I missed daddy, the farm, and mom.

SMITH: Now you were only there one year?

CHANDLER: One year.

SMITH: Why was that? Because you hated it? (laughs)

CHANDLER: Because I hated it. Then I came home and went back to UK and then I went to Warrenton Country Day in Warrenton, Virginia. And that was a little bit better cause they had horses up there. And I could 34:00show and hunt, I couldn't hunt but I could show and jump and do all that stuff and that was, it was, that was a nice place, good school.

SMITH: How long were you there?

CHANDLER: I think about a year and a half.

SMITH: Okay.

CHANDLER: Then I went to Walker's in, in Simsbury, Connecticut.

SMITH: Why did you make the change?

CHANDLER: I don't really know. They made it. I think it's probably because uh, Alma had gone there, Alma Haggin, and uh, daddy and Ethel Walker Smith were really, really good friends.

SMITH: Okay, okay.

CHANDLER: And there's a story with that, but it's, we're not there yet.

SMITH: Okay, will you remember to tell me later?

CHANDLER: Yeah.

SMITH: Okay, okay

CHANDLER: It's about getting married while you're there.

SMITH: Oh really?

CHANDLER: Un huh.

SMITH: Alright, go ahead and tell me the story.

35:00

CHANDLER: Well--

SMITH: --I'm curious.

CHANDLER: The war started and I was dating this guy that was gonna go somewhere.

SMITH: Now you were in school then?

CHANDLER: I was in school there and I mean it was as strict as it gets and remember that daddy and Ethel Walker Smith who started the place; she was still alive and she, and I was in, and I was a senior and I had gone to Florida for spring break to see this guy who was going off to God knows where; we got married.

SMITH: While you were on spring break?

CHANDLER: Un huh.

SMITH: Oh.

CHANDLER: And I told nobody.

SMITH: Um-hm.

CHANDLER: So I went back to school and Mrs. Smith came the first Sunday 36:00that we were back and spoke to the Sunday religious group and, about integrity and all that good stuff and I thought, uh oh. So I, I liked her a lot and you know she and daddy were good friends so I got a hold of her after that was over and I said I need to talk to you. And I told her what I'd done and she said "Have you told your parents" and I said "no".

SMITH: Now how old were you?

CHANDLER: I was 18 and I said no and she said well you better do that. 37:00And the principal was so convinced that she was gonna let me go, Mrs. Smith was gonna let me go, that she could not believe it when I was allowed to stay and finish.

SMITH: Oh.

CHANDLER: And I called daddy up and told him what I had done, told him that-- He said "Are you pregnant?" And I said "no". And he said "Well why did you get married then?" I said," I don't know, because there's a war on."

SMITH: Um-hm.

CHANDLER: So, he said "well pack your bags" and I said "I don't have to leave." He couldn't believe it.

SMITH: Why did she make the exception?

CHANDLER: I think because of him. Cause they were friends.

38:00

SMITH: Was this your last year?

CHANDLER: I only had six weeks.

SMITH: Oh, still that was generous.

CHANDLER: Oh yeah, it was, I mean this was one of the strictest schools in the country and so that day at lunch, I tapped on my water glass and I stood up and I told all the girls what I had done. And they stood up and just cheered. (both laugh) Anyway it was, it was fun.

SMITH: Everyone likes the rebel I guess. (laughs) What was the young man's name, your first husband?

CHANDLER: A. C. Judy.

SMITH: Okay.

CHANDLER: And we had two children, Mike and Tish or Tish and Mike and then we divorced.

SMITH: We'll go back a little bit.

39:00

CHANDLER: Oh yeah, way back, way back. (both laugh)

SMITH: Well that's you know still part of your education--

CHANDLER: --oh yeah--

SMITH: --history there in a big way I guess. Okay, I, after -- Well I guess we'll just go forward from there. After you graduated, did you come back to Kentucky or--

CHANDLER: I went to Florida.

SMITH: Okay.

CHANDLER: Until the war was over, in Sanford, Florida until, well not, pretty much till the war was over. I think I got out Ethel Walker's in 1944.

SMITH: Okay.

CHANDLER: And we had two kids uh, and divorced.

SMITH: What year did you divorce, do you remember? (Chandler sighs)

SMITH: Roughly.

CHANDLER: Roughly '48.

40:00

SMITH: Let's go back to your education a little bit. You had a good education.

CHANDLER: As far as it went; no college.

SMITH: Okay.

CHANDLER: No college but a good education, I did.

SMITH: Did you have any idea of what you would want to do with the rest of your life? I guess you got married? (both laugh) That sorta decided. (Chandler laughs)

CHANDLER: Yeah, that really, but once I got divorced uh, I mean I was living here and I was living in a house on the farm and it was sort of, but I did have two kids. And, I mean I, I was trying to raise the kids 41:00and still stay involved with the farm.

SMITH: Okay. So, throughout your childhood and teenage years, the idea of being back on at least a farm was--(Chandler nods)--Okay. Did you have uh, I know you showed the horses and the hunters. Did you have any dreams of what you might do with horses? No?

CHANDLER: I just um, did what daddy did.

SMITH: Okay.

CHANDLER: And, but I mean after he left, there was no option except to sell. I mean at the sales, I had to do the sales and by that time, the sales had gotten out of Saratoga. There were two sales. There was the Keeneland sales and the Saratoga sales. And I had, that's another story.

SMITH: Okay. Yes, I've read about Sir Ivor and we'll get to that.

42:00

CHANDLER: Oh yeah.

SMITH: But let's go back to your childhood a little bit. I know that you were clearly extremely close to your father. What are some of your other memories of him; building Keeneland and --?

CHANDLER: Just loved the land and, and, and loved, loved, but he was smart. I mean he, he, in a common sense way and um, he was involved in a lot of things in town, like the bank, and you know, I mean he, he did other things besides the farm.

SMITH: Um-hm, involved in the community?

CHANDLER: Um-hm.

SMITH: Did he inspire you to think in those terms, cause you've certainly been a strong community and business leader. Are you following in his footsteps in that way as well?

43:00

CHANDLER: It didn't, I mean being asked to do those things never stopped me from doing em. I mean I, and somebody must have made me aware that I mean daddy was the kind of person that cared a lot about what happened to downtown. I mean he was responsible for this airport more than anybody.

SMITH: Really?

CHANDLER: Oh yeah. And I mean he, he wanted the best that he could have for Lexington and that was, that was a care of his, a concern, yeah.

SMITH: What other projects did he, was he interested in? Of course the airport and Keeneland are two--

CHANDLER: --the bank.

SMITH: The bank; what bank was this, do you remember?

CHANDLER: First National.

SMITH: Now all of your childhood memories and, of course, building 44:00Keeneland happened during the Depression. Did the Depression impact your family at all, that you can remember?

CHANDLER: I'm sure it did. I mean I don't, I don't, I mean it's not anything they talked about, but it impacted everybody. The way that Keeneland really got started, I mean this, the Depression wiped out this old racetrack over there on the north side of town and that's, that's really what made Keeneland happen.

SMITH: Okay.

CHANDLER: And I think that was part, part of not being able to maintain that was because of the Depression, the old track.

SMITH: Did it change anything in terms of workforce? I've heard a lot of stories of people going to the farms looking for some kind of work as people came out of, lost their jobs. I mean Mr. Bassett's father went 45:00to Greentree after the Depression.

CHANDLER: Yeah--

SMITH: So--

CHANDLER: --yeah, Ted, yeah, yeah. Well I really wasn't that aware of that.

SMITH: Okay.

CHANDLER: Um, all is I know is we used to have a lot of black guys on the farm. We don't have any anymore and I told you that. I just, that's amazing.

SMITH: When did you see that begin to change?

CHANDLER: It changed and I wasn't aware of the change. But I mean, it's been pretty obvious since I've had Mill Ridge.

SMITH: Okay. The sixties--

CHANDLER: I mean of course in the beginning there were no Mexicans.

SMITH: Right.

CHANDLER: And that's been a very influential factor.

SMITH: Um-hm. What about women, women on the farms?

CHANDLER: Um, we've had several.

46:00

SMITH: Has that changed over the years as more women got involved in taking care of horses than there were before?

CHANDLER: We, I mean we hire women. But it's not, they're not, they're not as numerous as men.

SMITH: Okay.

CHANDLER: No, um. And I think women are pretty qualified. I mean women for the most part love horses too.

SMITH: Um-hm. Yeah, someone was telling me if it weren't for the women getting their parents to get them a horse and inspiring their interest, some of the breeds would have a lot of trouble.

CHANDLER: Yeah, yeah

SMITH: Hum. Uh, talking about your father again, clearly he, his 47:00involvement with Keeneland continued until his death. Was this something just because he felt that passionate about it or, you know why did he stay so involved with Keeneland?

CHANDLER: I never, I never asked him. I just took it for granted, I mean, that he would and he did and uh, he, uh, bought 10,000 acres in Georgia, outside of Albany and I can't remember, oh it must have been maybe '44, '45 and he'd take all of his yearlings down there in November and stay until the end of March. Built a training track, nice, nice house; um, left my mother here. She was raising my brother 48:00and came back up here and you know the end of, of March and went right straight to Keeneland. And that's where he died.

SMITH: Um-hm. Was he still racing horses?

CHANDLER: Racing?

SMITH: Um-hm when he died?

CHANDLER: Oh yeah, oh yeah. That's why he was doing all this. He never stopped racing.

SMITH: I remember I read in one of your interviews that he enjoyed betting, but quit betting after there was a change in the percentage of the take out; explain that to me.

CHANDLER: Well he never, he never really talked about betting. I mean that was something I never realized he was doing until after it was all over and I got older and, you know, put two and two together. I presume, I think he did bet and I think when the take out got to be 49:00higher, he felt it wasn't fair to the better because he wasn't getting what he deserved, he or she, um, and so he said you know not going to do this anymore. I think that's just my guess.

SMITH: Between '36, let's see, he died in '62

CHANDLER: Um-hm.

SMITH: '62 is that right

CHANDLER: Yeah.

SMITH: A lot of changes in racing industry; do you recall any of his concerns during that period of how things might be changing the way, direction racing was going?

CHANDLER: It was something he really didn't talk about.

SMITH: Okay.

CHANDLER: He tried to do something about it if, you know if there was a concern. Um,

SMITH: Um-hm. So as far as you know, he was pretty happy with how things developed at Keeneland?

CHANDLER: Um-hm, oh yeah. Yeah, very, very happy.

50:00

SMITH: Okay um, well I'm sure we'll continue to talk about your dad throughout--

CHANDLER: --it, it'll come up--

SMITH: --all the time that we talk, it'll come up--

CHANDLER: --it'll come up--

SMITH: --it'll come up. And you clearly were close to your father; what about your mother? What do you think your mother's influence was on your life?

CHANDLER: My mother was a very attractive woman. Um, I think taste, I mean hate to talk about saying, you know, but I knew what her likes and dislikes were in, in clothes and decorations and she, she just was an attractive gal that uh, um, well she wanted without being vocal 51:00about it, I mean, she wanted the best for her children, I mean the best education, and all that kind of thing was important to her.

SMITH: Um-hm.

CHANDLER: Um, and uh, she was a good mother. She, well she taught us a lot about just living and all that good stuff, dressing, and education, and you know, taste.

SMITH: That's right.

CHANDLER: I mean, I don't want to sit her and, but, she was sort of in to that.

SMITH: I understand. I understand and that's important. Um, how did she feel about your marriage when you were 18?

CHANDLER: We never talked about it.

SMITH: Really!

CHANDLER: We never, we never, we never discussed it. I mean it was, it was a done thing and then I married twice after that.

SMITH: Yes.

CHANDLER: So--

SMITH: How long uh, when did your mother pass away?

CHANDLER: Uh, mom died in 1987.

52:00

SMITH: Oh, okay.

CHANDLER: And she was very close to being 90 years old.

SMITH: Okay, now she lived-- Where did she live after your father died?

CHANDLER: She lived over on, what's the name of that street-- My sister lives there now.

SMITH: But in Lexington?

CHANDLER: Um-hm. Um-hm.

SMITH: Okay.

CHANDLER: It's the street that parallels Chinoe; that's a block from um, Main Street.

SMITH: Okay, I know the area you're talking about.

CHANDLER: Yeah, right.

SMITH: I'm getting more and more familiar with Lexington. (both laugh)

CHANDLER: It'll take a minute

SMITH: Yeah, yeah. Um, okay, we've covered a lot about your earlier years and I will have to say, when I was reading about you, it'd pretty much take you up to the point of your education and then it seemed like 53:00there was a gap in the record and then we go to '62 when you inherited Mill Ridge Farm so tell me about your life um, I guess from your first marriage. It sounds like you were probably pretty busy being a mother.

CHANDLER: Um, yeah, uh, I mean gosh, my son's here right now, you know, with, that son is my second child is working for Mill Ridge now. He was a trainer; ended up being a trainer.

SMITH: Was that Mike?

CHANDLER: That's Mike.

SMITH: So when, now you were in Florida when you first got married

CHANDLER: Um. Hum.

SMITH: and when were, were your children born when you were in Florida or--

CHANDLER: They were born when I was in Florida.

SMITH: Okay, okay, so you got divorced I think you said like '48. You came back to Kentucky after the war, is that right?

CHANDLER: Mike was born, Mike was born, Tish was born in '45; Mike was 54:00born in '47. I think we got divorced in '48. I remarried in '50; moved to Houston; lived there for nine and a half years--

SMITH: --oh, okay--

CHANDLER: --and uh, had two kids down there two; two boys Reynolds and Headley.

SMITH: Okay and your second husband's name?

CHANDLER: He was John Bell's brother--

SMITH: --okay--

CHANDLER: --Reynolds, Nick Bell, John Bell's brother.

SMITH: What did he do in Texas?

CHANDLER: He was Southwest Supply Company, which was his father's company and they supplied oil field equipment, supplies, to oil, oil wells and stuff.

SMITH: Well that's a very different life than being on the farm. (Chandler whistles) How did you like Texas?

CHANDLER: Hated it. (laughs) I called my father up after nine years and said I'm coming home. He said "Pack, I've been waiting to hear."

55:00

SMITH: Aah. So--

CHANDLER: I mean there was nothing down there for me but the Garden Club which I never had gotten involved in before and the country club and four kids.

SMITH: Well taking care of, raising four kids takes a lot of time.

CHANDLER: Yeah, but uh, uh--

SMITH: So you were, your second marriage lasted about nine years, then you came back home.

CHANDLER: Um-hm.

LADY SMITH: Did you come back home to the farm with your dad, your dad's farm?

CHANDLER: Lived down in the same house I lived in before.

SMITH: Okay (laughs --Chandler) Okay, and so your children then would have ranged in age from older teenagers--

CHANDLER: --fourteen was max.

56:00

SMITH: Okay.

CHANDLER: Um, I think Tish was fourteen and Mike was maybe twelve and a half.

SMITH: So it was quite a change for them to come from Houston and Florida to being at the farm.

CHANDLER: Well they, they'd, they'd been back and forth twice.

SMITH: Twice.

CHANDLER: Right. Right. And the best part of, one of the best parts was the Lexington School had just opened. Daddy gave them the land to build the Lexington School on it was part of Beaumont and um, so Mike was the first school president.

SMITH: Oh, okay.

CHANDLER: They went to Lexington School which was just great. That was good.

SMITH: Now, you came back what would have been '58, a few years.

CHANDLER: Came back in '59, May of '59.

57:00

SMITH: Okay, um, did you help your dad with the farm at that point?

CHANDLER: Um-hm.

SMITH: What did you do?

CHANDLER: Just was with him and u, um, I don't really remember what I did, but I was back, back again.

SMITH: Okay, okay. So you didn't have a job outside of, was continuing to take care of the children and work with your dad.

CHANDLER: No, never have.

SMITH: In all those years, did you continue to ride horses, be involved with horses, even when you were in Texas?

CHANDLER: I was involved with horses but I didn't ride anymore.

SMITH: Really.

CHANDLER: No. It was, it's awful hard to uh, , Kim, to ride a horse around a working horse farm.

SMITH: Oh, okay, understand.

CHANDLER: I mean it is just, it's difficult and so I quit riding 58:00seriously when I was probably about 15 or 16.

SMITH: You miss it?

CHANDLER: Um-hm.

SMITH: What about your children and their involvement with horses. Now I know at least three of your children have some connection to horses.

CHANDLER: Three of em do. The three boys.

SMITH: Did they, do they like being on the farm and being around it?

CHANDLER: When their father, my second husband, he worked, he managed a farm down, what the hell is the name of it, stupid, between here and Nicholasville and uh, they had a pony down there and everything and they got a chance to really you know, do the pony thing. And they did. And they're all involved in the business now, all three of the boys. 59:00Now the girl works for Ken Lloyd, who's an interior decorator.

SMITH: Okay, did she like the horses or just wasn't interested in working with them?

CHANDLER: She never got involved in em.

SMITH: Okay. Your grand-, your father, how close was he to your children? Was he an influence on them, you think?

CHANDLER: Mike was the last one he spoke to when he died. And Mike, you may have read this, but he was, he was torn about dropping the horse that he was holding and, and, and catching daddy, and daddy, he finally turned loose of the shank and turned the horse loose and daddy went right to his hands and was dead when he hit the floor.

SMITH: Had he had, he died of a heart attack, is that--

60:00

CHANDLER: --Um-hm--

SMITH: --had he had heart trouble before?

CHANDLER: Um-hm. He was going to Georgia in the winter time and uh, uh, he had been having some heart problems down there for three or four years. And he brought his horses home, uh; well he died on the 22nd of March of 1962.

SMITH: How old was he, roughly?

CHANDLER: 73?

SMITH: Fairly young.

CHANDLER: But boy a lot of miles (both laugh) He didn't walk, he ran. (laughs)

SMITH: Oh, okay. Well it sounds like to accomplish everything he did, that that was probably what he had to do.

CHANDLER: He moved.

SMITH: Well go ahead and tell the story of uh, your father's passing away at Keeneland. Now you were with him as well, right?

CHANDLER: Yes, I was there. I was in the tack room. We had worked a 61:00bunch of a--

SMITH: --comfortable-- (laughs)

CHANDLER: --we had worked a lot of the horses that had been in Georgia all winter, uh, breezed em that morning and I was in the stand and I could see him clocking, I was, I was clocking. He was over at the 5/8 pole and there's a bank that goes from the edge of the railing down and it was ivy colored and he was running, I mean covered with ivy, and he was running up and down the bank clocking the horses and after we got through working, uh, we went in the tack room and talked about-- We 62:00were in the process of talking about how fast they'd gone and comparing notes about the times and all that. And without saying anything, he got up and went out and I don't whether he accidentally, there was one of those slip locks, it's not a lock but it's, it's a thing that closes the door you know and I don't know whether he did it on purpose or whether it was accidental, but I couldn't get out of the tack room. And he went all the way down to the end of the barn and spoke to all the people that were with the horses and came back up and the last person that was closest to the tack room was my son Mike. And he was standing there holding a filly over a webbing and somebody was putting 63:00bandages on her and daddy said, apparently, "Hold me son, I don't feel well," and Mike was torn about whether turning the horse loose and holding daddy and when he reached to do it, to catch him, when he turned the horse loose, daddy just slipped through his hands and was dead when he hit the floor. And I must have walked around that barn 500 times. It was tough.

SMITH: I can imagine, I can imagine. But in a way it was an appropriate place?

CHANDLER: Oh yeah, absolutely. And I mean he'd suffered enough because this was not anything that was bed riding him, but, for a man that was 64:00as active as he is to have this problem was not good. What are you doing? [both react to dog]

SMITH: Just stretching, looking at you-- It was quite an experience for your son as well, I'm sure, hard.

CHANDLER: And nothing was ever the same.

SMITH: Well why don't we, I know you have, you might have a little more time, but that seems like an appropriate place to, what time do you have to leave?

CHANDLER: I have to leave here at 12.

SMITH: Okay.

CHANDLER: But I mean I'm fine if you want to go another 15 minutes?

SMITH: Okay.

CHANDLER: It's your call.

SMITH: As long as you feel up to it.

CHANDLER: I feel fine.

SMITH: Okay, um, alright, so we're up to 1962, a very important year in your life. What was, of course his death was sudden but not totally 65:00unexpected.

CHANDLER: Not, not unexpected and he went the, I mean the grief was huge. Um, but I mean you know you got to move on and, um, he had built two small stallion barns here on this piece of land and he was in the process of building a 24-stall training barn and I borrowed the money from my mother to finish the training barn. It had 280,000 pounds of 66:00concrete in the rafters (Smith laughs). This was daddy now, this was my concrete freak and, and then it was just sort of an automatic thing, um. I couldn't afford, I couldn't afford to, I mean he had a lot of land but I don't know how much cash he had. And I never really got into it. I mean there was a small trust fund, which I used quickly. But uh, I just sort of made up my mind.

SMITH: Now you inherited just a part of the farm, how many acres?

CHANDLER: 288 acres.

SMITH: And the barns, those two barns were on that.

CHANDLER: And part of the 24-stall that hadn't been finished. Borrowed the money from my mother to finish that, that barn.

SMITH: What did you want to do? What were your plans?

CHANDLER: Well, I couldn't afford to do my own thing and um, a lot of 67:00people helped me get other people's horses to keep, to board.

SMITH: Okay, so--

CHANDLER: Which is what I did. I mean Bull Hancock for instance, got, I got all of Mike Phipps' yearlings to break and people, people that had overflow like Claiborne and people like that sent me their people, their overflow and that really helped me get started.

SMITH: Did they do that because of the connections through your, through your dad and--

CHANDLER: Oh sure, sure.

SMITH: Okay.

CHANDLER: Sure.

SMITH: I assume you knew these people very well.

CHANDLER: I did, I did and I mean a lot of people, I didn't, didn't know. But people that I didn't, I wanted the people that I kept for 68:00to be friends. I mean I didn't want just clients. Um, I mean I wanted the people whose horses I kept, I wanted to be comfortable with them. I wanted them to be friends. Uh, because every once in a while, you've got to make an ugly phone call. It doesn't happen very often, thank God, but (laughs --Smith) every once in a while you know, and you want a person that you are comfortable with and that you understand and that understands you and that, because every once in a while something happens and it's out of your control.

SMITH: Um-hm. Now at the time, of course your father had had a racing 69:00operation, not a breeding--

CHANDLER: --that's right--

SMITH: operation. So--

CHANDLER: --but he had to, he had to raise then before he raced then.

SMITH: Okay, so your, what you tried to do initially was then to board horses and raise them for other people.

CHANDLER: Right.

SMITH: Had your father done that?

CHANDLER: No.

SMITH: Okay, so how did, how did--

CHANDLER: --he didn't have to. He made enough money raising tobacco and selling cattle to be able to raise some horses. I couldn't do that.

SMITH: Did you have cattle or tobacco?

CHANDLER: No, no. I could've. Um, I had, I leased my tobacco allotment--

SMITH: --Um-hm. Okay--

CHANDLER: --to Louie Haggin's son-in-law and you know, I did that.

70:00

SMITH: Okay. So how did you decide what it was that you needed to do? Who helped--

CHANDLER: You know, Kim, it happened, Kim it happened so, so, , , I don't know how I decided. It was just sort of an automatic thing. I mean I had this land, I loved horses, only had four brood mares of my own including the dam of Sir Ivor it turned out.

SMITH: You inherited those from your father?

CHANDLER: Yeah and that was it. And, I mean, 288 acres and what could I do?

SMITH: You're right.

CHANDLER: So that's what I did.

SMITH: Did anyone um, help you with this; did you have anyone advising you? People like Bull Hancock or others? (Chandler shakes head "no") Okay.

CHANDLER: Unh uh.

SMITH: Did you feel comfortable doing this? You learned--

71:00

CHANDLER: Damned near froze to death (both laugh) I only had my four men, the four men that I inherited from daddy and it was, I ended up doing my own teasing

SMITH: Oh.

CHANDLER: The only thing I never did was go in the breeding shed--

SMITH: --really--

CHANDLER: --because he never encouraged me to go in the breeding shed and-- But, as far as everything else, the foaling, the breaking, everything else, I did. And I finally hired a farm manager after two years named Bill Shorter, who was real good. And I kept him until, until Reynolds, Mike went on and started training instead of going 72:00to college or anything like that, when he was 19. He went on and started training his own horses. He went to work for Frank Whiteley in the beginning who trained Ruffian. And then he went on and started training his own horses. And uh, Reynolds, my second son, after he got out of Vanderbilt, he ran this place for a while and then--

SMITH: --and that was in the 60s.

CHANDLER: Um-hm.

SMITH: Okay. So what was it like those first few years? Sounds like a lot of hard work?

CHANDLER: It was. It was with my four men and we built it up.

SMITH: Now originally then you would be, and this is just my ignorance of how a farm, a breeding farm operates; you were raising horses but you weren't really in the breeding business at that point, in the 73:00beginning?

CHANDLER: As I accumulated, and I can't remember who all my people were, mares--

SMITH: --okay--

CHANDLER: --from other, clients that you know wanted to be on the farm, then we started, we started breeding.

SMITH: Now who, you had a stallion at that point?

CHANDLER: Yeah, had a couple. Tisab was one horse that I raised but we didn't keep him long and I had several that went in and out. I mean I got Revoked from daddy because Revoked was at Beaumont when daddy died and then, you know, I'll have to go back and look and see who the stallions were.

SMITH: But you were able to start breeding then--

CHANDLER: --yeah--

SMITH: --pretty quickly.

CHANDLER: Yeah, uh, but over the years, I mean we've, we've, I mean Menow died here, but he was pretty old when daddy, and Reynolds got 74:00Gone West for me. But it just built up.

SMITH: Um-hm. Now Sir Ivor, my understanding is you felt like you had to sell him?

CHANDLER: Yeah, because of the money.

SMITH: Okay.

CHANDLER: I did. And uh--

SMITH: Now where you selling other horses as well?

CHANDLER: Everything.

SMITH: Okay.

CHANDLER: Everything I raised I sold.

SMITH: Did you know that Sir Ivor was special?

CHANDLER: I thought he was but I didn't know that special. He was a May 5th foal, he was a tall horse, he was just a little bit slab-sided; he hadn't really stopped growing by the time we got him to the sale and started to fill out. I mean he, um, and Bull bought him for Raymond 75:00Guest who was our ambassador to Ireland.

SMITH: Um-hm.

CHANDLER: And my mother and Mike and I flew over there, saw him win the Derby.

SMITH: That must have been quite an experience.

CHANDLER: Oh it was, it was. But he was, he was a good horse. And then Raymond sent him back to Claiborne after he retired.

SMITH: For breeding.

CHANDLER: Um-hm for breeding.

SMITH: Now you sold him for a pretty good sum of money?

CHANDLER: $42,000.

SMITH: Was that average or high at that time?

CHANDLER: It was average. It wasn't anything sensational.

SMITH: Okay. Was this one of the first purchases made by people from overseas?

CHANDLER: It has been said that this is what really started Keeneland as 76:00a sales company.

SMITH: That's what I heard.

CHANDLER: Sales, um, yeah. I think it helped.

SMITH: When you went over for the Derby, were you, was it unusual for Americans to be there to have horses, to be associated with horses that were in the Derby?

CHANDLER: I think it was.

SMITH: Okay.

CHANDLER: I think it was and I had my mother with me and I didn't want to, you know, I mean I was (pause) I wanted to be, I mean, we sat in Raymond Guest's box which was nice and uh, Mike ended up, there was one of those railings, rafters; he was so excited and he couldn't see and he ended up hanging off the rafter (Smith laughs) as the horse finished 77:00the race. But it was quite an experience.

SMITH: Now did I read that this was the first time you had been out of the states? Is that right?

CHANDLER: It was and then I married a South African and there was a lot of traveling after that. (both laugh) This was the first time I had ever been out of the states.

SMITH: So, selling Sir Ivor and then his success, how did that help the farm?

CHANDLER: I think, well financially, I mean, it wasn't a lot of money. But I think the fact that we raised a horse like that--and--

SMITH: Was he the first champion since you had taken over and started.

CHANDLER: Yeah and it was, it hadn't been that long.

SMITH: Um-hm.

CHANDLER: I mean he was, he was foaled in '65.

78:00

SMITH: Um-hm.

CHANDLER: Daddy died in '62.

SMITH: Oh okay.

CHANDLER: So it hadn't been, it wasn't that long. But you know it's an amazing thing. I mean, he was such a land freak and Bobby Frankel is the trainer and he trains for-- My husband is involved with Juddmonte Farm which is Khalid Abdullah's, Saudi Arabia. And anyway, Bobby trained Keeper Hill, all that on the wall.

SMITH: Oh okay.

CHANDLER: And Bobby has about six mares here on the farm, Bobby Frankel, and we raised a colt for him the other-- And he ran, he made his first 79:00start the other day and he just walked, I mean he just aired, he just left them standing there. He won by about five; just hand ride and Bobby spoke to somebody and said, "nobody raises horses like Mill Ridge does" which is really, from a guy that has trained, one of the leading trainers that there's ever been, it's a very nice thing to hear.

SMITH: What do you think is special about how you raise them?

CHANDLER: I think it's the land and I think it's the fact that I don't hot-house em. I mean I try to keep em as close to nature as I can, 80:00as much as I can. I mean I, I put em up. I put em up you know for a couple of hours in the morning and then the rest of the time, they're out. And uh

SMITH: Is that unusual?

CHANDLER: I don't know what other people do. I think it's the combination of the land and the fact that they're on it so much. And we got really good people and that is the key.

SMITH: Good people that are working for you or--

CHANDLER: --good people that are working for us and that goes from this office right on across the board. We got great people.

SMITH: What kind of staff do you have now in terms of numbers?

CHANDLER: I don't know, I haven't counted lately. (both laugh) I haven't counted lately but I will. (both laugh)

SMITH: Okay. Let me go back to when your father died and the land, I 81:00mean the farm was broken up amongst the siblings, correct? Did anyone else maintain a farm?

CHANDLER: Beaumont Center is, was given to the three older girls and they sold it and he knew they were gonna sell it. He knew they wouldn't keep it.

SMITH: Um-hm.

CHANDLER: But it's, it's gone and Poplar Grove where the concrete fence is, I lease from my brother.

SMITH: Oh, okay.

CHANDLER: I lease that and I lease, he's got four fields that are on this side of the Man O' War Boulevard that I lease. I've still got my original land, but I lease, I lease my sister's portion and my brother's portion which gives us enough to do the 185 mares that we've got now.

82:00

SMITH: Oh, that's a lot. So you're, you're really the one that's carried on your father's tradition when it comes to the horses?

CHANDLER: Well I guess I am.

SMITH: What does that mean to you to know that--

CHANDLER: --you know Kim, it's automatic. I mean it's just something that I never, I don't think about it.

SMITH: Do you feel that your father would be proud?

CHANDLER: Oh yeah. I mean when certain things happen like Sir Ivor, yeah, yeah. You feel that he's there, he's looking, he knows, and he'd be proud.

SMITH: Yeah, good feeling.

CHANDLER: Yes great feeling. I have enjoyed this so much. I have.

SMITH: Well why don't we go ahead and end for today and see when we can, I can come back and I'll listen to this interview again cause I'm sure there's some things about your childhood that I didn't touch on that 83:00I want to ask you. Well hi there baby [talking to dog]. And you can think about it too, if there's some things.

CHANDLER: All right. Do you want to go ahead and set up another time?

SMITH: Yes we can, let me go ahead and turn this off.

CHANDLER: Okay.

[End of interview.]

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